Michael, will you be able to join us on the Hangout this Wednesday? All the best,
John Blossom email: jblos...@gmail.com phone: 203.293.8511 google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Michael MacFadden < michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > Looks like there were some more votes on the other tool. > > On 7/24/13 1:25 PM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Thanks, Michael, Ali, if you could please confirm that you'll be able to > >attend, that would be great. Any concerns, please don't hesitate to bring > >them up now, thanks. > > > >All the best, > > > >John Blossom > > > >email: jblos...@gmail.com > >phone: 203.293.8511 > >google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > > > > >On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Great. > >> > >> I'd like to ask that everyone who attends has a basic understanding of > >> how wave's current OT algorithm works. There are several videos and > >> blog posts on the subject. Here's a video of me explaining the same > >> algorithm in the context of sharejs: > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfiADbXTPo > >> ... but there's many more resources kicking around. > >> > >> -J > >> > >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Bruno Gonzalez (aka stenyak) > >> <sten...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my schedule > >> > to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications > >> > Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > >> >> Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the > >>scheduling > >> >> tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the > >> discussion. > >> >> The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the > >>core > >> OT > >> >> thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. > >> >> > >> >> BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at > >>12.30. > >> >> Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south of an > >> >> hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start > >> thinking > >> >> about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive level > >>on > >> a > >> >> more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, but > >> for > >> >> the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for > >> >> community-wide access, that can help. > >> >> > >> >> Best Regards, > >> >> > >> >> John Blossom > >> >> President > >> >> Shore Communications Inc. > >> >> > >> >> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore > >> >> Communications Inc.) > >> >> > >> >> web: shore.com > >> >> blog: contentblogger.com > >> >> email: jblos...@shore.com > >> >> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >> fax: 203.663.8259 > >> >> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > >> >> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >> LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > >> >> facebook: John Blossom > >> >> skype: jblossom > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < > >> >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> John, > >> >>> > >> >>> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the attendee > >> >>> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to > >>attend > >> that > >> >>> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so > >> (Joseph). > >> >>> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the meeting > >> will be > >> >>> with such low participation from OT experts. > >> >>> > >> >>> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, but > >>if > >> the > >> >>> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need > >> additional > >> >>> participation to be successful. > >> >>> > >> >>> ~Michael > >> >>> > >> >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications > >> Inc." < > >> >>> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community > >>should > >> be > >> >>> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the > >>list > >> is > >> >>> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to reschedule, > >>no > >> >>> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting people on > >> board > >> >>> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite > >> others who > >> >>> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to the > >> event: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q > >> >>> > > >> >>> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then > >> you'll be > >> >>> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the > >> community, but > >> >>> > this is a busy week. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Best Regards, > >> >>> > > >> >>> > John Blossom > >> >>> > President > >> >>> > Shore Communications Inc. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore > >> >>> > Communications Inc.) > >> >>> > > >> >>> > web: shore.com > >> >>> > blog: contentblogger.com > >> >>> > email: jblos...@shore.com > >> >>> > phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> > fax: 203.663.8259 > >> >>> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > >> >>> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > >> >>> > facebook: John Blossom > >> >>> > skype: jblossom > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < > >> >>> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no other > >> people > >> >>> who > >> >>> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach > >>out > >> >>> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them in. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> ~Michael > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> All the best, > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom > >><jblos...@gmail.com> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be > >> Wednesday, 31 > >> >>> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later today > >>in > >> >>> >>>> Hangouts. > >> >>> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, please > >> forward > >> >>> >>>> me > >> >>> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the > >> circle of > >> >>> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and > >>Michael > >> >>> also, > >> >>> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't make > >>the > >> >>> >>>> hangout > >> >>> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common > >> record. > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> All the best, > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom > >><jblos...@gmail.com > >> > > >> >>> >>>> wrote: > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>>> Ali, > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: > >> >>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most > >>logical. > >> >>> Please > >> >>> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less ahead > >> from > >> >>> the > >> >>> >>>>> U.S. > >> >>> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 > >>right > >> >>> now. > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> All the best, > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> > >> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some dates > >> on? > >> >>> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>> Ali > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> > >>wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that seems to > >> match > >> >>> >>>>>> with > >> >>> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for this. We > >> can > >> >>> >>>>>> have > >> >>> >>>>>> the > >> >>> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to > >>encourage > >> >>> >>>>>> constructive > >> >>> >>>>>>> participation. > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> All the best, > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < > >> >>> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule for > >>next > >> >>> >>>>>> week. > >> >>> >>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>> ~Michael > >> >>> >>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond > >>with > >> some > >> >>> >>>>>> avails > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to > >>get > >> this > >> >>> >>>>>> party > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to come > >> >>> >>>>>> through, > >> >>> >>>>>> but my > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll have > >> some > >> >>> >>>>>> exciting > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world with > >> Wave!!! > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> All the best, > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < > >> >>> jose...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our > >> product at > >> >>> >>>>>> work. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -J > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore > >> >>> >>>>>> Communications > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to > >>move > >> it > >> >>> >>>>>> forward? > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> President > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of > >> Shore > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom > >> >>> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < > >> >>> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing > >>ops. > >> >>> >>>>>> Figuring > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> out > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly tricky - > >>but > >> >>> >>>>>> we'll > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> figure > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in order, > >>so > >> >>> >>>>>> we > >> >>> >>>>>> always > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a > >>prefix > >> >>> >>>>>> tree with > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in > >>sync > >> and > >> >>> >>>>>> O(log > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> n) if > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the > >>worst > >> >>> >>>>>> case, > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> where n > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> in > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's encode > >> this > >> >>> >>>>>> in > >> >>> >>>>>> hex. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> This > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for each > >> >>> >>>>>> operation. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. > >> Leaf-nodes > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their > >> respective > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> operation. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x > >>share > >> the > >> >>> >>>>>> same > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> prefix > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, > >>clients > >> >>> >>>>>> start > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> comparing > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is equal, > >>the > >> >>> >>>>>> entire > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> tree is > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and repeat > >>the > >> >>> >>>>>> procedure > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> for > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different hash, > >>but > >> all > >> >>> >>>>>> others > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> share > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are > >>one or > >> >>> >>>>>> more > >> >>> >>>>>> ops > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> with a > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need syncing. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few > >> levels. > >> >>> >>>>>> 8 > >> >>> >>>>>> levels > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible > >>ops. > >> So > >> >>> >>>>>> in > >> >>> >>>>>> the > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> worst > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to > >> >>> >>>>>> determine a > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> missing > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> op. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So when > >> >>> >>>>>> syncing we > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> report > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask for > >>all > >> >>> >>>>>> ops > >> >>> >>>>>> this > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> client > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get them > >> (even > >> >>> >>>>>> if we > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> know > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from > >>another > >> >>> >>>>>> client). > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> If > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. With a > >> good > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> approximation > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which > >> >>> >>>>>> algorithm > >> >>> >>>>>> is the > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> best > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings > >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Regards/Saludos, > >> > Bruno Gonzalez > >> > > >> > http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net > >> > > >
