I will be there. Ali On 24 Jul 2013 16:26, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Michael, Ali, if you could please confirm that you'll be able to > attend, that would be great. Any concerns, please don't hesitate to bring > them up now, thanks. > > All the best, > > John Blossom > > email: jblos...@gmail.com > phone: 203.293.8511 > google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Great. > > > > I'd like to ask that everyone who attends has a basic understanding of > > how wave's current OT algorithm works. There are several videos and > > blog posts on the subject. Here's a video of me explaining the same > > algorithm in the context of sharejs: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfiADbXTPo > > ... but there's many more resources kicking around. > > > > -J > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Bruno Gonzalez (aka stenyak) > > <sten...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my schedule > > > to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there. > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications > > > Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > > >> Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the > scheduling > > >> tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the > > discussion. > > >> The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the core > > OT > > >> thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. > > >> > > >> BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at > 12.30. > > >> Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south of an > > >> hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start > > thinking > > >> about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive level > on > > a > > >> more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, but > > for > > >> the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for > > >> community-wide access, that can help. > > >> > > >> Best Regards, > > >> > > >> John Blossom > > >> President > > >> Shore Communications Inc. > > >> > > >> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore > > >> Communications Inc.) > > >> > > >> web: shore.com > > >> blog: contentblogger.com > > >> email: jblos...@shore.com > > >> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >> fax: 203.663.8259 > > >> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > > >> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >> LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > > >> facebook: John Blossom > > >> skype: jblossom > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < > > >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> John, > > >>> > > >>> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the attendee > > >>> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to > attend > > that > > >>> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so > > (Joseph). > > >>> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the meeting > > will be > > >>> with such low participation from OT experts. > > >>> > > >>> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, but if > > the > > >>> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need > > additional > > >>> participation to be successful. > > >>> > > >>> ~Michael > > >>> > > >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications > > Inc." < > > >>> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community should > > be > > >>> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the list > > is > > >>> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to reschedule, > no > > >>> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting people on > > board > > >>> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite > > others who > > >>> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to the > > event: > > >>> > > > >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q > > >>> > > > >>> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then > > you'll be > > >>> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. > > >>> > > > >>> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the > > community, but > > >>> > this is a busy week. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > Best Regards, > > >>> > > > >>> > John Blossom > > >>> > President > > >>> > Shore Communications Inc. > > >>> > > > >>> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore > > >>> > Communications Inc.) > > >>> > > > >>> > web: shore.com > > >>> > blog: contentblogger.com > > >>> > email: jblos...@shore.com > > >>> > phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> > fax: 203.663.8259 > > >>> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > > >>> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > > >>> > facebook: John Blossom > > >>> > skype: jblossom > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < > > >>> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no other > > people > > >>> who > > >>> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach out > > >>> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them in. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> ~Michael > > >>> >> > > >>> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> >> > > >>> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> All the best, > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> John Blossom > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom < > jblos...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be > > Wednesday, 31 > > >>> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later today > in > > >>> >>>> Hangouts. > > >>> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, please > > forward > > >>> >>>> me > > >>> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the > > circle of > > >>> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and > Michael > > >>> also, > > >>> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't make > the > > >>> >>>> hangout > > >>> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common > > record. > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>> All the best, > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>> John Blossom > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom < > jblos...@gmail.com > > > > > >>> >>>> wrote: > > >>> >>>> > > >>> >>>>> Ali, > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: > > >>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most > logical. > > >>> Please > > >>> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less ahead > > from > > >>> the > > >>> >>>>> U.S. > > >>> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 > right > > >>> now. > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> All the best, > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> John Blossom > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> > > wrote: > > >>> >>>>> > > >>> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. > > >>> >>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some dates > > on? > > >>> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) > > >>> >>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>> Ali > > >>> >>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that seems to > > match > > >>> >>>>>> with > > >>> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for this. We > > can > > >>> >>>>>> have > > >>> >>>>>> the > > >>> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to > encourage > > >>> >>>>>> constructive > > >>> >>>>>>> participation. > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>> All the best, > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>> John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < > > >>> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule for > next > > >>> >>>>>> week. > > >>> >>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>> ~Michael > > >>> >>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond > with > > some > > >>> >>>>>> avails > > >>> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to get > > this > > >>> >>>>>> party > > >>> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to come > > >>> >>>>>> through, > > >>> >>>>>> but my > > >>> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll have > > some > > >>> >>>>>> exciting > > >>> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world with > > Wave!!! > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> All the best, > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < > > >>> jose...@gmail.com > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>>>>> wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our > > product at > > >>> >>>>>> work. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> -J > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore > > >>> >>>>>> Communications > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to > move > > it > > >>> >>>>>> forward? > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> President > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of > > Shore > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom > > >>> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com > > >>> >>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < > > >>> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing > ops. > > >>> >>>>>> Figuring > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> out > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly tricky - > but > > >>> >>>>>> we'll > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> figure > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in order, > so > > >>> >>>>>> we > > >>> >>>>>> always > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a > prefix > > >>> >>>>>> tree with > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in sync > > and > > >>> >>>>>> O(log > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> n) if > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the > worst > > >>> >>>>>> case, > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> where n > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> in > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's encode > > this > > >>> >>>>>> in > > >>> >>>>>> hex. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> This > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for each > > >>> >>>>>> operation. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. > > Leaf-nodes > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their > > respective > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> operation. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x > share > > the > > >>> >>>>>> same > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> prefix > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, clients > > >>> >>>>>> start > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> comparing > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is equal, > the > > >>> >>>>>> entire > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> tree is > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and repeat > the > > >>> >>>>>> procedure > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> for > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different hash, > but > > all > > >>> >>>>>> others > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> share > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are one > or > > >>> >>>>>> more > > >>> >>>>>> ops > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> with a > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need syncing. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few > > levels. > > >>> >>>>>> 8 > > >>> >>>>>> levels > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible > ops. > > So > > >>> >>>>>> in > > >>> >>>>>> the > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> worst > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to > > >>> >>>>>> determine a > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> missing > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> op. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So when > > >>> >>>>>> syncing we > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> report > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> the > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask for > all > > >>> >>>>>> ops > > >>> >>>>>> this > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> client > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get them > > (even > > >>> >>>>>> if we > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> know > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from > another > > >>> >>>>>> client). > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> If > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. With a > > good > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> approximation > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which > > >>> >>>>>> algorithm > > >>> >>>>>> is the > > >>> >>>>>>>>>> best > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards/Saludos, > > > Bruno Gonzalez > > > > > > http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net > > >
