Great. I'd like to ask that everyone who attends has a basic understanding of how wave's current OT algorithm works. There are several videos and blog posts on the subject. Here's a video of me explaining the same algorithm in the context of sharejs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfiADbXTPo ... but there's many more resources kicking around.
-J On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Bruno Gonzalez (aka stenyak) <sten...@gmail.com> wrote: > I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my schedule > to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there. > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications > Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the scheduling >> tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the discussion. >> The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the core OT >> thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. >> >> BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at 12.30. >> Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south of an >> hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start thinking >> about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive level on a >> more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, but for >> the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for >> community-wide access, that can help. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> John Blossom >> President >> Shore Communications Inc. >> >> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> Communications Inc.) >> >> web: shore.com >> blog: contentblogger.com >> email: jblos...@shore.com >> phone: 203.293.8511 >> fax: 203.663.8259 >> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> facebook: John Blossom >> skype: jblossom >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the attendee >>> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to attend that >>> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so (Joseph). >>> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the meeting will be >>> with such low participation from OT experts. >>> >>> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, but if the >>> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need additional >>> participation to be successful. >>> >>> ~Michael >>> >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications Inc." < >>> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community should be >>> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the list is >>> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to reschedule, no >>> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting people on board >>> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite others who >>> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to the event: >>> > >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q >>> > >>> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then you'll be >>> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. >>> > >>> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the community, but >>> > this is a busy week. >>> > >>> > >>> > Best Regards, >>> > >>> > John Blossom >>> > President >>> > Shore Communications Inc. >>> > >>> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >>> > Communications Inc.) >>> > >>> > web: shore.com >>> > blog: contentblogger.com >>> > email: jblos...@shore.com >>> > phone: 203.293.8511 >>> > fax: 203.663.8259 >>> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >>> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >>> > facebook: John Blossom >>> > skype: jblossom >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < >>> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no other people >>> who >>> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach out >>> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them in. >>> >> >>> >> ~Michael >>> >> >>> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. >>> >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> >>> >>> John Blossom >>> >>> >>> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be Wednesday, 31 >>> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later today in >>> >>>> Hangouts. >>> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, please forward >>> >>>> me >>> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the circle of >>> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and Michael >>> also, >>> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't make the >>> >>>> hangout >>> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common record. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> All the best, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> John Blossom >>> >>>> >>> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Ali, >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: >>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most logical. >>> Please >>> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less ahead from >>> the >>> >>>>> U.S. >>> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 right >>> now. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> All the best, >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> John Blossom >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some dates on? >>> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Ali >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that seems to match >>> >>>>>> with >>> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for this. We can >>> >>>>>> have >>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to encourage >>> >>>>>> constructive >>> >>>>>>> participation. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> All the best, >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> John Blossom >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < >>> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule for next >>> >>>>>> week. >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ~Michael >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond with some >>> >>>>>> avails >>> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to get this >>> >>>>>> party >>> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to come >>> >>>>>> through, >>> >>>>>> but my >>> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll have some >>> >>>>>> exciting >>> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world with Wave!!! >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> All the best, >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < >>> jose...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our product at >>> >>>>>> work. >>> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -J >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore >>> >>>>>> Communications >>> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to move it >>> >>>>>> forward? >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom >>> >>>>>>>>>>> President >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com >>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com >>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com >>> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 >>> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom >>> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom >>> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom >>> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < >>> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing ops. >>> >>>>>> Figuring >>> >>>>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly tricky - but >>> >>>>>> we'll >>> >>>>>>>>>> figure >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in order, so >>> >>>>>> we >>> >>>>>> always >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a prefix >>> >>>>>> tree with >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in sync and >>> >>>>>> O(log >>> >>>>>>>>>> n) if >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the worst >>> >>>>>> case, >>> >>>>>>>>>> where n >>> >>>>>>>>>> in >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's encode this >>> >>>>>> in >>> >>>>>> hex. >>> >>>>>>>>>> This >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for each >>> >>>>>> operation. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. Leaf-nodes >>> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their respective >>> >>>>>>>>>> operation. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x share the >>> >>>>>> same >>> >>>>>>>>>> prefix >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, clients >>> >>>>>> start >>> >>>>>>>>>> comparing >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is equal, the >>> >>>>>> entire >>> >>>>>>>>>> tree is >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and repeat the >>> >>>>>> procedure >>> >>>>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different hash, but all >>> >>>>>> others >>> >>>>>>>>>> share >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are one or >>> >>>>>> more >>> >>>>>> ops >>> >>>>>>>>>> with a >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need syncing. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few levels. >>> >>>>>> 8 >>> >>>>>> levels >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible ops. So >>> >>>>>> in >>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>> worst >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to >>> >>>>>> determine a >>> >>>>>>>>>> missing >>> >>>>>>>>>> op. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So when >>> >>>>>> syncing we >>> >>>>>>>>>> report >>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask for all >>> >>>>>> ops >>> >>>>>> this >>> >>>>>>>>>> client >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get them (even >>> >>>>>> if we >>> >>>>>>>>>> know >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from another >>> >>>>>> client). >>> >>>>>>>>>> If >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. With a good >>> >>>>>>>>>> approximation >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which >>> >>>>>> algorithm >>> >>>>>> is the >>> >>>>>>>>>> best >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > > > > -- > Regards/Saludos, > Bruno Gonzalez > > http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net
