George wrote:
> At 11:49 PM 6/24/1998 -0500, Peter J. Schoenster so eloquently stated:
> >I would bet that FP can be a great tool in the hands of one who
> has mastered
> >it. But what has he mastered? Why not master the website?
> Master that and
> >then choose your tool. Don't master the tool and miss the trade.
> >
>
> Spoken like a true techie ;-}.
I get a lot of work done without knowing assembly language. I write in my
word processor, knowing completely well that it creates bloated code
underneath. I use a GUI 98% of the time, though I know that the code it runs
could probably be half the size if the programmers had the time, put forth
the effort, or didn't have to create bloatware so people would keep buying
the latest processors. The thing is, I get a lot done despite these things.
The argument for many FP users is "hey, it does the job...I don't really
care how it does it, but it works for me", which is fine. To each their own.
However, for me it's the wrong tool, and it is a tool I would prefer my
clients not use, due to my take on the profession of being a web developer.
For example, if I write a chunk of Cold Fusion code and one of my clients
downloads the file from the server, imports it to FP and makes some text
edits, FP will alter code unnecessarily. Hence, when the code is returned to
the server it may not work...plus, and here's the big plus, it has
complicated matters by not only changing the formatting of the code, but has
added superfluous code to the mix, making it much more unwieldy.
There are many other things about FP that have been talked about lately that
are seen as negatives from the webmaster standpoint, so I won't go into them
here. The point I'm trying to make is that if I use Word, chances are there
will be no one hacking the code directly, and no need to (even in the
unforeseen future). But...with websites, there _may very well_ be a need to
hack the code created by FP, either by someone who is an FP user and is
becoming more knowledgeable about html, or by someone who needs to add some
custom code, or by someone down the line who the project may be turned over
to. For these reasons, I think deciding on FP as a mainstay tool should be
an educated decision, not just based on "it's easy to use". For that reason,
I'm glad we're all educating each other.
> What is the trade? My forte (and trade) is marketing -- not
> technical issues. I look at "words that sell" not the best
> program to present those words.
>From my experience with the typical FP generated site, it is not necessarily
"the best program to present those words". Agreed. (or am I putting words
into your mouth, tee hee ;) Many times, in order to get a clean, effective,
readable layout you need to do some html stuff that is either more difficult
or impossible to do with FP and requires some hand html'ing. And please note
that, for most developers, hand html'ing usually involves the use of other
tools that expedite the process greatly. It is not just sitting and typing
out every single character, every element in a tag, every dimensions of an
image, etc.
> In our office we use many
> different tools, including HTML Editor which is probably as low a
> level as one can go (except for Notepad). We (not me) also have
> database applications.
>
> Do I know the limitations of FP or other tools? Sure. Do I
> care? Sometimes. But then again, for my "trade" my "tools" are
> the printed word, not the technical programs required to get the
> words to the Net.
Would you throw away your most beloved email program for some underpowered
dog of an email program, even if it got the job done? The technical programs
do matter. If you are collaborating with others who involve themselves with
the tech side of things then you should discuss their preferred working
terms with them. You don't work in a vacuum.
> If you need to get a message across, I can help. If I need to
> combine animated gifs, you, or Jack or Suz or Susan or Lee or
> Brent or Gerry or Matt, or... can help (forgive me if I forgot
> anybody). Could you learn marketing? Sure. Could I learn how
> to combine gifs? Absolutely. But together we have a great team,
> and we become a great resource. That's my take on FP -- a great
> resource to be used strategically, and not for everything.
Strategic working should involve maximizing the relationships. If you are
working with, or planning on working with, someone who believes that the
elimination of FP will actually streamline things, allowing you to do your
"trade" and work in words, while they do their "trade" and optimize your
site for size and future handling, then you are accomplishing much more than
handing them code bloat and asking them to sort it out. It depends on your
working system with others involved in your process. Your decisions should
also be based on looking into the future and deciding if the methods you use
now are going to be acceptable to people you may work with in the future.
If "writers write" then "webmasters webmaster", or something like that.
We've all seen what can happen when some webmasters write or when some
writers webmaster, eh?
I think the defining factor between the FP camp and the non-FP camp comes
from how each camp uses web technology and envisions their place in it.
There are no rights and wrongs, just preferences. Understanding the reasons
for the preferences, rather than getting personal and defensive seems like a
helpful thing for a consultant to do. Once the reasons for the preferences
are out in the open, then the productivity has a chance to go up, or at
least be more fun and less tedious.
If anyone has looked at Vignette Story Server or systems like it for web
publishing, you will see that there are some very powerful solutions that
let writers write and webmasters webmaster. For someone who likes to write,
with Vignette they can go hog-wild, writing, writing, writing...without
having to know anything about publishing it to the web. Since they don't
have to know any FP or whatever, they may have less on their mind and have
more fun doing what they really enjoy. I think, though, that the marketing
of products like FP makes many writers think they can publish. Maybe many of
those writers actually want to learn how to publish to the web, and relish
the possibilities that FP offers them. Maybe many users of FP would kill you
if you took their FP away. In that case, they are not just writers, their
trade has expanded and as a result they have opened the door to having to
learn more than they had bargained for to co-exist with other members of
their newly selected trade.
Jack
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