skipping the thread on caps lock entirely (since it seems to be
crackling nicely without needing my help), i do have a few points to
offer which might help you get further along.

> i'm looking for some adivce on how to start up as being a for hire web
> designer.  i've seen a few sample contracts,  but i don't know all the
> legals.  so far i have a bunch of very general info.  if anyone can
> give me some words of wisdom that they have learned through their
> experience i would greatly appreciate ie.


point 1:  this is an awfully general statement.   web design is a
pretty big field, and seems to be getting bigger by the minute.
<geezer_mode>  back in '95, being a webhead pretty much meant knowing
HTML and having a decent background in some other field of information
management or presentation.. graphic design, desktop publishing,
coding, etc.  </geezer_mode>

these days, there are sub-specialties in every area a person could hope
to enter.   i'm on a team which is getting set to freelance a very
large project, and we've been lucky enough to find people who are
really hot specialists in project management, document manipulation,
file structures, proprietary document format translation, information
architecture, and a bunch of things i can't remember off the top of my
head.   each and every one of us is good enough in our own area of
strength that we have a deep respect for the strengths of the others,
and are willing to pass responsibility off to whoever's best.

we're also using nearly every contract structure under the sun to
handle the business arrangements, from work-for-hire to indentured
servitude.   i personally am having to learn quite a lot about the
liability issues of serialized subprojects operated and maintained by
select partners and contrators under the general charter of a
limited-liability company, just so i can keep talk to the people who
are doing the legal (legals.. forgot them.. we have some very, very
good ones on the team) stuff without having them give me that look
normally reserved for puppies and small children with bladder control
problems.

from the general tone of your statements, i gather that you're still
in the process of looking for an area where you can dig in and set up
housekeeping.   that's cool.. everybody has to start there, because
none of us sprang full-grown from the skull of Zeus as Professional
Web Developers.   OTOH, we can't point you towards any handy shortcuts
to PWD status because we just don't know of any - and believe me,
we've all looked hard for one.  ;-)


point 2:  the request for a URL or portfolio is nearly a reflex among
professionals (especially on this list), because it's the fastest and
easiest way of finding out how your area of emphasis relates to mine,
hers, his, and the rest of the gang's over there.   it's also the
first, last, and only question that really matters to a client: "what
can you do, and how good are you at it?"   if you want to see rude, sit
across the table from half a dozen digerain'ti (non-web-literates..
oppose: digirati) with a lot of money to spend, and all the
insecurities of being WAY out of their depth.   you can tell when it's
a "friendly" session, because you don't start praying for a grenade
until fifteen or twenty minutes in.



> ps---  i was looking into seeing if i could take a tour of a web
> design co and see how everthing is done from step 1------->end.  is
> that a good idea?  i'm desprate for some real info.

this will sound like a complete tangent, but bear with me.. it
actually is relevant:

one of the things every early-to-mid-level writer tries to do (after
learning that the "dead pet" story has slightly less market appeal
than 'it was a dark and stormy night..') is write a piece about a
writer.   it's a natural part of their self-examination, and
let's face it, anyone who writes knows just how much of a kick in the
pants it can be to hit the zone and start having the work write
itself.. it's exciting as hell, and our fledgling author wants to
share that with the rest of the world.

thing is, in a good 999,999 out of 1,000,000 cases, such stories are
absolute crap.

the problem is that good writing has an active voice.. it's about
things happening, not states of being.   the act of creation, on the
other hand, revolves almost entirely around states of being..
specifically the practice of tapping bubble after bubble of potential
reality to see which one rings out most like whatever the writer
wants to convey.   it's a lot like panning for gold:  arduous as hell,
fantastically rewarding.. and about as much fun to watch as a
top-loading washing machine.


the point is that unless you can find a guru who understands what they
do well enough to explain it to somebody else, you won't learn much of
from watching a project in flight.   if you find a good firm, you might
get to see the mechanics of several good techniques in action, but
it's still like trying to learn how to be a mechanic by watching an
Indy pit crew.   things are going to go past too quickly for you to
focus on them, and you won't have seen all the hard work that went
into deciding what should happen when.


there's a quote i pull out every time someone asks for the secret of
the 'net:

   "a guru is somebody who's two pages ahead of you in the manual."

because making a place for oneself on the 'net is an ongoing process
where you keep stuffing bits of experience in your "been there, done
that" bag.   all the information you acquire will seem general an out
of context until you actually place yourself in situations where the
generalitites are constrained by given circumstances.

the best advice i can give you is to go out and experiment with things
you want to learn in a context where you can experiment, backtrack,
and do things over.   keep your projects small and well-defined, so
you can find out what you want to know as quickly as possible, then
move on to something else.   that applies to HTML, interview
techniques (hey, why /not/ apply for jobs you have no intention of
taking.. it gives you an excuse to keep your CV up to date and wear
your interview suit once in a while), client pitch sessions, or
contract negotiations.   the more iterations you have under your belt,
the more specific the questions you'll be ready to ask.


a final, parting pearl of wisdom, based on many, many trips nose-first
thru' the gravel:

    keep good notes.

you can waste more time repeating crud you've already done, and
spelunking your way through quick & dirty fixes that were never
cleaned up like you meant to do, than on anything else in the known
universe.   any time you find yourself saying, "dammit, where was
that?", you're in a situation where you need to keep better notes.
the time you save not backing up is time that can be used to get
farther ahead.








mike stone  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   'net geek..
been there, done that,  have network, will travel.



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