Nice story! Thanks for sharing.

David

On 2011-09-26, at 1:04 PM, Paula Loehr wrote:

> As a front end applications developer of a WO application, when I transferred 
> to our WO project 4 years ago, I didn’t know WO at all.  I came from a  PC 
> background, so for that matter I didn’t know the MAC world at all (all my PC 
> friends told me I had transferred over to the dark side.  I agree and I’ll 
> never go back to PCs).  I have a CS and Math degree, had been in Systems 
> Integration and IT Support for many years, had programmed in C, taught myself 
> HTML, had written numerous PC database applications and knew how to analyze 
> and automate companies business processes. 
> 
> So, I started on this WO application, didn’t have prior experience with 
> Client/Server applications, WO, Eclipse, Confluence, Jira or Macs and I lived 
> 2000 miles from all the developers on the team only to see them once a month. 
>  Some days I wanted to ask questions via IM of someone else on the team and 
> once I was sure that my question would sound logical, I’d finally ask someone 
> only to get a response back that made no sense to me.  The business process 
> that I was working on was also difficult and detailed as well as the existing 
> database design for the rest of the project.  Its schema took up half a wall 
> in Paul’s office, so I had to understand that too.  
> 
> With all that said, I clearly remember, as though it were yesterday, there 
> was one morning, when I was working and all of the sudden it hit me. I kept 
> saying to myself, “I get it, oh my gosh, I got this. I understand. I see how 
> this all (well, maybe not “all”) fits together.”  However, working from home, 
> there was no one else to share in my excitement except my dog, Pugley, (yes, 
> she’s a pug).  So, I had only a couple months to frantically code everything 
> and meet my deadline that was only a couple months away.  I know my coding 
> wasn’t perfect even once “I got it”, but as I continued coding and kept 
> following other’s coding patterns, I kept learning more and more and had many 
> more “Ah Ha” moments.  I was also fortunate to have many colleagues that were 
> very gracious and willing to answer my questions and help bring me up to 
> speed.  For those that don’t have that, the WebObjects Mailing List is a 
> great alternative.  I’ve only posted to the list twice, but each time I 
> received responses that helped solve my problems.  
> 
> I just had to comment on this thread because I love programming in WO now. I 
> think it’s intuitive (sure I say that now) and makes Client Server 
> application development straightforward! If what you’re looking for is 
> someone to work on  the front end then it’s important to find a well rounded 
> person who understands object oriented design and coding, can understand the 
> customer’s needs, convert those needs into a design and then build that 
> product (WO can be learned), and if you’re looking for someone to work on 
> your framework and continue to expand that, then yes, you need someone who is 
> much more technical and understands the nitty-gritty.
> 
> I hope there are many more applications in the future that will be based on 
> WebObjects.
> Paula
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/26/11 5:48 AM, "Pascal Robert" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Le 2011-09-26 à 07:36, Paul Yu a écrit :
>> 
>>> My experience with hiring programmers.
>>> 
>>> Type 1:  Chasing after the next job.  The only reason that they want your 
>>> job is so it prepares them for their next job.  They want the acronyms of 
>>> the day to beef up their resume.  These guys usually have a lot of acronyms 
>>> and certifications on their resume already.  These people would not want to 
>>> learn WebObjects, and you probably don't want to hire these people for you 
>>> lean startup any way.
>> 
>> +1. And that's why, when doing interviews, I always ask people why they got 
>> in IT and if they participate in open source projects or other development 
>> stuff. If they said they are only programming for their job or they got in 
>> IT for the pay or they only program at their job, they loose points.
>> 
>>> Type 2:  Good programmers.  Good programmers are hard to find in this very 
>>> competitive environment.  Good programmers in the java space, when 
>>> presented with WebObjects will appreciate its elegance and want to learn 
>>> it.  However, if I were a good programmer today, I would be learning iOS 
>>> development first.
>>> 
>>> The challenge that we face as a community is that Apple has pulled a lot of 
>>> people into their vortex.  There are not many WebObjects ready people 
>>> available to help on projects any more.  So even small startups like my own 
>>> will need to look at growing our own teams.  As suggested, a good existing 
>>> project/program will help new people transition easier, but without good 
>>> training...  This is a chicken-egg problem.  Without the demand for the 
>>> training...
>> 
>> We have to make WO "cool" again, so that means a new "WO in 5 minutes" 
>> presentation, a presentation tailored for iOS people, etc., and a 
>> presentation without some ugly French Canadian accent in it.
>> 
>>> I wish this was easier...
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> On Sep 26, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Marius Soutier wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 26.09.2011, at 12:57, Jim Kinsey wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> experienced JEE types who have all the certs under the Sun
>>>> 
>>>> Nice one! :)
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with you, people who know Java well and have at least basic Cocoa 
>>>> / CocoaTouch exp should be able to grasp WO rather quickly. 
>>>> 
>>>> I'll check out the Community Talk now, thanks for so much input. A good 
>>>> community is also a big plus :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> - Marius
>>>> 
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> 
> -- 
> Paula Loehr
> 
> K12 Inc
> 719-460-4350
> [email protected] 
> 
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