On 9/2/05, Ate Douma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I'm not a fan of licensing stuff either and INAL etc.
But, I think it *is* of utmost importance, especially for framework projects like Wicket.
I would advise all the team members to read and follow the recent (this week) discussion
started on the ServerSide about this exact subject:
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156
This thread is already massive and contains besides very interesting and valuable opinions
also a lot of rubbish as usually.
As I said, INAL, but the one thing that's very clear to me from that discussion is that
choosing the appropriate license *and* complying to it is not to be taken lightly and can
be tricky to say the least.
Using LGPL licensed code especially is very dangerous in my book, because everyone seems
to have a different interpretation of it.
Maybe the LGPL is crystal clear in legal terms in the end, but as long as so many people
disagree about what it really means, I don't trust it...
Most notably in the discussion on the ServerSide is the unexpected trick Rickard Öberg is
now playing on JBoss by declaring all his original work within the JBoss codebase (which is
a massive amount) to be GPL from now on:
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156#182919
Checkout section 3) of the LGPL for a clarification.
This might end up as being nonsense and of no consequence, and maybe not.
I really don't know but I love to find out how this will work out.
Anyways, for Wicket, I didn't know yet it already depends (and contains) LGPL code.
Turns out the DatePicker embeds and uses the calendar _javascript_ library from
http://dynarch.com/mishoo/calendar.epl.
First of all, as result of that, I think we need to distribute the LGPL license with the
Wicket extension library as required by section 1) of the license.
Not complying with that is a violation of the LGPL.
Furthermore, (and this one is very important to me as Apache committer) this also means usage
of the Wicket extensions is no longer possible for Apache projects as the ASF doesn't allow any
LGPL binding. While this is a restriction only from the ASF itself and not purely based on
the ASL 2.0 license of Wicket (it *is* allowed to bind to LGPL if you want), many companies
won't allow using the Wicket extensions anymore because they don't trust LGPL either.
I've worked myself on a commercial project which didn't allow any LGPL based or linked software
because they didn't trust that license and couldn't be sure about the consequences.
Reading the discussion on theServerSide again reinforced that I have to agree on that assessment.
So, I think I need to make my position clear on this matter.
Binding Wicket extensions to LGPL (as it already does) makes it useless to me and many others.
And binding Wicket core to LGPL would make the whole framework useless to me and many others.
I do think it is important to be very careful about all this. Some choices can end up to have
irreversible consequences and in my view seriously endanger the acceptance of Wicket...
Eelco Hillenius wrote:
> Yeah, I don't know. I allways hated the licencing stuff. Wish there
> were just two licences. However, we allready depend on some LGPL
> licences and I have seen a lot of other Apache 2 style projects do
> that too. I can't imagine this becomming an actual problem. But if
> someone would be so kind to explain the details/ in-outs that would be
> nice.
>
> It would really suck if when you choose for Apache 2, you couldn't use
> LPGL at all, and if you choose LGPL, you couldn't use Apache 2 at all.
> I'm pretty sure I speak for 95% percent of the programmers if I say
> I'm really not that into the details; as a customer I want to know
> whether I can ship it with commercial projects, and - maybe - whether
> I can ajust the source and ship it.
>
>
> Eelco
>
>
> On 9/2/05, Igor Vaynberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>If the license is such a big issue why not just keep this project as contrib
>>instead of extension, that way the license doesn't really matter.
>>-Igor
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
>>>Ate Douma
>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:38 PM
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Integrating FCKeditor
>>>
>>>Nick Heudecker wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm looking to integrate a _javascript_ WYSIWYG editor into Wicket,
>>>>similar to DatePicker. FCKeditor is LGPL, so I don't think
>>>
>>>there's a
>>>
>>>>licensing problem. Any thoughts or advice before I start
>>>
>>>doing this?
>>>I have no opinion (yet) on the technical merits of FCKeditor
>>>or any other editor.
>>>But, I'm not in favor of introducing LGPL as Wicket is under
>>>the Apache 2.0 license.
>>>LGPL really cannot be seen as comparable nor compatible to
>>>the Apache 2.0 license and in my opinion introducing it now
>>>might harm acceptability of Wicket in the end.
>>>
>>>There are other options with more compatible licenses,
>>>although I don't know if they match FCKeditor on features and
>>>technical quality.
>>>
>>>For one, there is kupu which has a BSD-style license.
>>>I haven't used or worked with it myself, but I know others
>>>have embedded it very successfully in several CMS engines,
>>>like Zope, Apache Lenya and recently Apache Graffito which
>>>uses it for editing html documents within a JSR-168 compliant portlet.
>>>
>>>If you are interested: http://kupu.oscom.org/ Online docs are
>>>available from their subversion repository:
>>> http://codespeak.net/svn/kupu/trunk/kupu/doc/
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Ate
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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