> except that i wouldnt consider a few printed pages of code a 
> complex example, but thats just me :)
Well, some of the examples are actually quite complex - if you are new
in Wicket. There are loads of IConverters and stuff that need to
register each other (chained) with the main application. It is maybe not
complex quantity wise but to get through it if you are new to the
subject, I think it can be quite challenging.

> to each their own i guess
So true, so true. That's why I only tried to state my opinion for people
who might think alike to undertand what they can expect of the book ...
and what they cannot! :)

> one thing to remember is that this is an introductory book 
> aimed at newbies. also keep in mind that people coming form 
> mvc frameworks lke struts/webwork/foo or jsps/php/etc might 
> not necessarily be up to speed on OO, so baby steps were intentional. 
Oh sure - I totally agree. Baby steps are absolutely fine by me - I can
always skip the parts that are too boring.
But ESPECIALLY with people coming from php (for example) you have to be
careful what you teach them and show them how to write code in a real
language (;) and not confuse them by redoing everything over and over
As a side note: a java developer who claims to have written applications
with a web framework and actually any java developer who calls himself
just that and is not up to speed on OO is not a java developer.

> and hopefully this approach will avoid the "framework coder", 
> because it teaches you not just the how but the why :) 
Hmmm, yeah ... good point. But maybe I am still not clear enough on what
I mean (language barrier?).
I absolutely agree that you have to have the why. One of the points I
stressed about the book was that the author assumes people already
understand certain Wicket concepts while with other concept he keeps on
explaining them. It is quite unbalanced in my opinion. In my copy (it's
a very early one, I don't know if it still applies) on pages 189 and 190
this is one of the places where he moves way to fast in my opinion.

Additionally, there are quite a lot of good books on general Java coding
and this should be a prerequisite before reading the book: if you don't
know Java it will be difficult to grasp the Wicket concepts anyways. And
in my opinion, especially with this book. :)

> maybe the problem for you is that the why is communicated in a 
> too-much-hands-on manner :) 
Yes, maybe that's it. I admit that I very rarely actually compile and
run the examples in books - I want the concepts, not the code. :) 
Plus I usually understand the code by looking at it anyways and if I
don't then I won't either when I run the example...

Anyway, I think this has been a very lively and interesting exchange of
thoughts. I think, it now comes down to the very fundamental view on
coding and what one personally likes and dislikes in a tech book.

Thanks a lot, it was very inspiring...

// Che

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