Joyce, Thanks for being a pioneer. Your words certainly clarify the situation with publishers and returns. Best, Gene
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:29 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for the encouraging words about my abilities. I am glad that > arrangements are in the works for those doing open texts to have the kind of > resources Allyn and Bacon has given me. I was also interested to know that > commercial publishers can print and sell materials that are copyrighted > under open licenses...as I understand this whole arrangement better I will > share it with my editor...It seems like a great idea...If I understand it > right, the material could be produced by an author, released under an open > license, a publisher could add bells and whistles like pictures, study > guides, etc. etc. and sell the book for the value added. One issue, > however, might be that from what I have seen the actual payment to authors > is a relatively small part of publishing costs or overhead and/or profit > margin. I am really not sure but I think an author's return on a text like > mine is $4 to $5 per book for every $100 students pay. > > From talking to my editor I know that commercial publishing is undergoing a > revolution. I hope that there is someway to make this work reasonably for > everyone without greediness from anyone. I like the Gandhi quote: "The > earth has enough for everyone's need, but not everyone's greed." Yours in > the work of making all the world's knowledge available to all the world's > people. Joyce > > [email protected] wrote: ----- > > To: [email protected] > From: Wayne Mackintosh > Sent by: [email protected] > Date: 10/05/2010 04:21AM > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WikiEducator] An Ethical Dilemma -- Feeling sad :-)- When > publishers don't do what they say they intend to do > > Hi Joyce, > > I promised further comment and some of these thoughts link up with Stephens > reflections: > > > 1. Joyce you hold a PhD and have extensive life experience covering the > text of the book you are writing. The fact that the publisher issued a > contract for you to author the text is a testament to your knowledge and > experience in the field. The publisher would not have issued the contract > unless you had the prerequisite skills combined with the potential for > reasonable market return, either directly from your text or indirectly by > increasing sales of other texts. > 2. The value added services and skills like editing, visual design etc > are not exclusive to the publishing industry. Open communities like > WikiEducator (and other open projects) can provide these services as well. > I don't buy the argument that these services are the competitive and > exclusive advantage of publishers. In time, as a non-profit entity -- the > OER Foundation will be in a position to pay for these services as we build > a > free knowledge ecosystem. > 3. The open (libre) content movement does not wish to exclude > individuals (or publishers) from earning a living -- they are free to > package and sell free content in traditional print formats with the > understanding that there will always be a free (no cost and libre) digital > version of the texts available for other educators, learners and other > publishers to use without restriction, By the same token,the OER Foundation > has no issue with paying authors to develop content as long as it is > released under a free cultural works approved license. So for example, the > WikiEducator project paid consultants to develop the wiki tutorials we use > to provide free training for educators around the world -- on condition > that > the tutorials were released as OER in open file formats. > > As professional educators -- we have the authority and freedom to say *NO > *to all-rights reserved texts we author and produce. In WikiEducator, when > we develop OER -- publishers are free to use our materials as long as they > don't restrict the freedom of others to do so as well. The free culture and > the open web will develop a sustainable production model around OER --- and > we invite everyone to join us in achieving these objectives. > > A more sustainable planet for all :-). > > Watch this space ... we will make OER futures happen! > > Cheers > Wayne > > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:27 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Wayne: I know I am late in inquiring about this, but I am a little >> confused about how the publisher will gain from offering this book under a >> free license. The reason I am asking is that I am under contract to write a >> comprehensive community organizing textbook for Pearson/Allyn and Bacon a >> very large US publisher. My editor has offered me her time and wonderful >> resources that I could not possibly have had were I doing this project on my >> own and I don't begrudge them their fair share of any proceeds, but I would >> like my work to be readily available especially in developing countries, so >> I am confused about how I might meet my publisher's needs to make a >> reasonable return on all they have invested in the book and in me as a >> writer while still being fair to indigent readers. I hope this question >> makes sense. Joyce McKnight SUNY/Empire State College, Member of the OER >> Foundation. >> >> [email protected] wrote: ----- >> >> To: [email protected] >> From: Wayne Mackintosh >> Sent by: [email protected] >> Date: 09/14/2010 01:03AM >> Subject: Re: [WikiEducator] An Ethical Dilemma -- Feeling sad :-)- When >> publishers don't do what they say they intend to do >> >> >> Hi Gene, >> >> Thanks for the note -- with every mistake (and I believe the publishers >> have made an honest mistake) there is a learning experience. >> >> Together we can make the world a better place -- and the open web and free >> content licensing can help. There is a place for everyone in the sun -- even >> publishers who can earn a living through publishing free content. >> >> The embarrassing point is that my name is now published under a >> non-commercial license :-(. However -- let's turn an honest mistake into a >> success for all involved. I have just received an email from the publisher >> requesting that we connect for a skype conversation later this evening. I >> will suggest that they drop the NC restriction and release the work under a >> CC-BY-SA license. >> >> That would be a smart move for them imho --- the "free" advertising >> resulting from a move like that would push and promote sales. >> >> We'll see what happens. >> >> Cheers >> Wayne >> >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:55 PM, gene aronin <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Wayne, >>> This was an exceptional commentary of your dilemma, because it >>> 1)demonstrated what "creative commons" was all about, and 2) demonstrated, >>> through your honesty and forthrightness the importance of this idea. >>> Demonstrate by example. Good for you, Wayne. >>> >>> Gene >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:28 PM, aprasad <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Dr. Wayne, >>>> >>>> I can imagine how humiliating the situation to you. Hope the publishers >>>> will come out with an erratum. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Wayne Mackintosh < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Never a dull moment in the free culture world. Ordinarily -- I would >>>>> not post public notifications around potential misunderstandings or >>>>> oversights by a publisher. However, I find myself facing an ethical >>>>> dilemma. >>>>> Particularly since today I'm been commenting considerably on my personal >>>>> ethics and views associated with the non-commercial restriction on our >>>>> national New Zealand MLE list. >>>>> >>>>> I was recently invited to write the forward for a new publication -- a >>>>> book of tweets on open text books. Great idea, very cool and appropriate >>>>> for >>>>> our times. In response to the invite, my very first question was was: >>>>> >>>>> "More than happy to provide a "tweet" -- what license will you be >>>>> publishing the book under?" >>>>> >>>>> Response: >>>>> >>>>> "We will be doing this under Creative Commons - Attribution - Share >>>>> Alike license- http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ >>>>> That is the current plan. Any interest in co-authoring?" >>>>> >>>>> My response: >>>>> >>>>> "I always check that anything I write is published under a free >>>>> cultural works approved license :-) I would love to co-author" >>>>> >>>>> So I do my bit, read the text, write a short forward and contribute a >>>>> tweet. I now see that the book has been published under a CC-BY-NC-SA >>>>> license -- which is very unfortunate, because I think its a great text and >>>>> it seems that there has been an oversight in attributing my contributions >>>>> under a license which meets the free cultural works definition which was a >>>>> condition of my contribution. (See: >>>>> http://www.happyabout.com/thinkaha/opentextbooktweet01.php). I've >>>>> asked the publishes to print and distribute an erratum indicating that my >>>>> personal contributions are licensed under CC-BY-SA on the basis of our >>>>> original agreement. I'm confident that they will do the right thing. >>>>> >>>>> When I submitted my tweet, I wrote: >>>>> >>>>> "This is licensed under CC-BY which will enable a derivative under >>>>> CC-BY-SA." I did this work during official time, and my employers IP >>>>> policy >>>>> requires that I release my work under a default CC-BY license." >>>>> >>>>> If there were any communications from the publisher in the interim >>>>> about changing the license -- I missed these ;-(. Moreover, for the >>>>> record, >>>>> I would not have agreed to having anything I write published under an NC >>>>> license. >>>>> >>>>> It's ironic that while the book carries a NC restriction -- the >>>>> international public can purchase the texts, hard copy or ebook for a >>>>> listed >>>>> price of $19.95 or $14,95 and see that currently some discount applies. >>>>> >>>>> Anway -- this is a public announcement that my forward is licensed >>>>> under a CC-BY-SA license and my tweet - No 31 is openly licensed under a >>>>> free cultural works approved license (CC-BY) in this case. The publisher >>>>> was >>>>> free to add an NC restriction on the tweet - -but has omitted to attribute >>>>> the source :-(. For the record, both versions of the texts I submitted >>>>> are >>>>> licensed under a CC-BY license. You are free to take these texts, reuse >>>>> them, adapt them, modify them and if you like sell them :-) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Wayne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. >>>>> Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org/> >>>>> Director, International Centre for Open Education, >>>>> Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. >>>>> Founder and elected Community Council Member, >>>>> Wikieducator<http://www.wikieducator.org%20/> >>>>> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 >>>>> Skype: WGMNZ1 >>>>> Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >>>>> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >>>>> To visit the discussion forum: >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Warm regards >>>> >>>> Anil >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >>>> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >>>> To visit the discussion forum: >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With Best Wishes for an Even Better Day >>> >>> Gene-loeb >>> Gene-loeb Aronin, Ph.D. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >>> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >>> To visit the discussion forum: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. >> Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org/> >> Director, International Centre for Open Education, >> Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. >> Founder and elected Community Council Member, >> Wikieducator<http://www.wikieducator.org%20/> >> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 >> Skype: WGMNZ1 >> Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >> To visit the discussion forum: >> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "WikiEducator" group. >> To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org >> To visit the discussion forum: >> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> > > > > -- > Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. > Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org/> > Director, International Centre for Open Education, > Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. > Founder and elected Community Council Member, > Wikieducator<http://www.wikieducator.org%20/> > Mobile +64 21 2436 380 > Skype: WGMNZ1 > Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] -- With Sincerest Best Wishes , Gene Gene Loeb, Ph.D. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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