Hi James, Just to be clear, I think that supporting GIFT on MediaWiki is a good idea and that it should be done. In my blog, I wrote, "The GIFT format could potentially be a nice choice for other wiki-based systems to adopt, although it is not clear whether or not the language is consistent or complete in a formal sense. This could make writing a parser (especially a bi-directional one) challenging, especially if it turns out the grammar is full of ambiguities."
Please remember that many people on WikiEducator use the "Rich Text Editor" mode (the WYSIWYG wikitext editor). If GIFT support were to be added, and it were to integrate with the rich text editor, then writing a bidirectional parser would have to be taken into consideration. So, having a parser that can go between valid XHTML and GIFT is a worthwhile concern to have in mind when supporting GIFT. As I attempt to implement GIFT in MediaWiki, I will let you know if this is in fact a major concern or not. I think if you want people to endorse GIFT, it would be good to get more people trying it out first. So, let's try it out. Email me off-list if you'd like to work on this with me. -Josh On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:47 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> wrote: > Are there any WikiEducators who agree with Joshua that GIFT needs > further formalization before endorsement? > > I strongly disagree. Further delay on endorsing GIFT would do a huge > disservice to the education and wiki communities. I've been involved > in the standardization efforts on this topic for decades, and nothing > Joshua has said here or on my blog has convinced me that advocating > for the absurd amount of typing inherent in the XML approach he > advocates is not a travesty. Even if wikitext were XML instead of > wikitext, I would still be in favor of wikitext instead of XML. > > Regards, > James Salsman > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Joshua Gay <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Thinking about this issue further, I went ahead and wrote a blog-post > that > > captures my perspectives on markup languages for educational assessment, > > here is a link, http://joshuagay.org/blog/?p=78 > > > > > > James, thanks for responses. I think that GIFT really needs to be > formalized > > a bit more. I like the idea of a simple, text-based way of inputting > > assessments into wikis and learning management systems, but, it is > unclear > > based on the documentation (including the source code you referenced) how > > robust the language actually is. I would love to see it paired with an > > XML-based language definition along with some translation rules that > allowed > > you to do unambiguous bi-directional translation. > > > > -Josh > > > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:07 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> On Oct 21, 9:51 pm, Wayne Mackintosh wrote: > >> > > >> > Our current approach at the OER Foundation with regards to > >> > student-content > >> > interactions is incremental -- simply because we do not have the > >> > financial > >> > capacity for the complexities associated with the GIFT approach at > this > >> > time. > >> > >> That is all the more reason to ask the Wikimedia Foundation -- to whom > >> $2,500 is a very small sum relative to their dozens-of-millions dollar > >> budget -- to take Yaron Cohen up on his offer to add GIFT to Mediawiki > >> for everyone. If Wikieducators could speak with a unified voice on > >> this subject, I am sure that the Wikimedia Foundation would listen. > >> > >> I have been involved in XML-based question markup since the IEEE P1484 > >> LTSC Learning Technologies Standards Committee and IMS.org were > >> working on early versions of QTI in the 1990s. There is no doubt in > >> my mind that a coherent endorsement from the community and adoption in > >> Mediawiki would cause crystallization around a single, user-friendly > >> format which hasn't happened in the past decades of committee work. > >> > >> On Oct 21, 11:35 pm, Joshua Gay wrote: > >> > > >> > Is there a formal definition of the GIFT syntax somewhere (e.g., > >> > Bakus-Naur > >> > format) so that I can more easily write a parser? > >> > >> Sure, it's defined by Moodle's implementation -- > >> > http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/question/format/gift/format.php?view=markup > >> -- but there are also various guides linked from > >> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift > >> > >> > Supporting GIFT on top of MediaWiki does seem possible, but, what is > >> > your > >> > suggestion for working around the fact that standard MW symbols and > GIFT > >> > symbols collide? Something like <gift> tags? > >> > >> That would work, but a separate Mediawiki namespace for questions, I > >> think may have been the design plan from around April 2010. > >> > >> > It seems very similar to Connexions QML format -- > >> > http://cnx.org/help/authoring/xml#qml -- what makes GIFT better? > >> > >> The primary benefit of GIFT is that it is much more concise. Here is > >> the example from http://cnx.org/content/m10139/latest/ in GIFT: > >> > >> ::item1:: Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? > >> { =A fruit. # Correct! ~A vegetable. # Incorrect } > >> // specific-help: Bananas grow on trees. > >> // general-help: Fruits grow on trees. > >> > >> Would you rather type that or this...? > >> > >> <q:item id="item1" type="single-response"> > >> > >> <q:question> > >> Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? > >> </q:question> > >> > >> <q:answer id="fruit1"> > >> <q:response>A fruit.</q:response> > >> <q:feedback>Correct!</q:feedback> > >> </q:answer> > >> > >> <q:answer id="vegetable1"> > >> <q:response>A vegetable.</q:response> > >> <q:feedback>Incorrect.</q:feedback> > >> </q:answer> > >> > >> <q:hint>Bananas grow on trees.</q:hint> > >> <q:hint>Fruits grow on trees.</q:hint> > >> <q:feedback>Bananas are a fruit.</q:feedback> > >> > >> <q:key answer="fruit1" /> > >> > >> </q:item> > >> > >> > (For example, I noticed that CNX QML supports > >> > "hints", whereas GIFT does not). > >> > >> Tim Hunt of the Moodle development team has suggested that the comment- > >> based extensions described at > >> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift#Learner_adaptation > >> can be used for hints, as shown above. > >> > >> > Lastly, may I suggest that you refer to GIFT as a "lightweight markup > >> > language." > >> > >> I agree it is one, but I think Tantek Çelik has a definition of a > >> picoformat somewhere on microformats.org which GIFT fits. > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:34 PM, James Salsman wrote: > >> > > Wayne, > >> > > >> > > Will you please endorse open self-study assessment content? E.g., > >> > > Moodle's GIFThttp://microformats.org/wiki/gift?This kind of content > >> > > overlaps with polls. A polling system can often be used for > assessment > >> > > and an assessment system can often be used for polling; the two > should > >> > > be able to share the same code for presenting questions to users. > >> > > >> > > As you know, there are large numbers of open and free educational > >> > > resources, but many fewer with open assessments to allow for self- > >> > > study evaluation, and which in turn can be used to recommend a place > >> > > to start for learners of varied backgrounds to begin in lengthy > texts. > >> > > Low stakes quizzes as a study activity are also valuable in their > own > >> > > right. > >> > > >> > > Several weeks ago you said you would address this in a few weeks. > Why > >> > > the delay? Yaron Cohen, one of the Semantic Mediawiki developers, > has > >> > > had a standing offer to add GIFT support to Mediawiki for $2,500 > since > >> > > the middle of last Summer. It is a shame that nobody has yet stepped > >> > > forward to make it happen. > >> > > >> > > Sincerely, > >> > > James Salsman > > > > > > > > -- > > "Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test > > scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > -- "Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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