Hi James, I would imagine that the majority of WikiEducators would welcome increased functionality for the inclusion of learner activities, quizes etc.
Just a heads up that many participants on this list are more interested in the OER than the technology underneath the hood - -so feedback and responses regarding the technical aspects may be slow. Cheers Wayne On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:47 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> wrote: > Are there any WikiEducators who agree with Joshua that GIFT needs > further formalization before endorsement? > d > I strongly disagree. Further delay on endorsing GIFT would do a huge > disservice to the education and wiki communities. I've been involved > in the standardization efforts on this topic for decades, and nothing > Joshua has said here or on my blog has convinced me that advocating > for the absurd amount of typing inherent in the XML approach he > advocates is not a travesty. Even if wikitext were XML instead of > wikitext, I would still be in favor of wikitext instead of XML. > > Regards, > James Salsman > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Joshua Gay <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Thinking about this issue further, I went ahead and wrote a blog-post > that > > captures my perspectives on markup languages for educational assessment, > > here is a link, http://joshuagay.org/blog/?p=78 > > > > > > James, thanks for responses. I think that GIFT really needs to be > formalized > > a bit more. I like the idea of a simple, text-based way of inputting > > assessments into wikis and learning management systems, but, it is > unclear > > based on the documentation (including the source code you referenced) how > > robust the language actually is. I would love to see it paired with an > > XML-based language definition along with some translation rules that > allowed > > you to do unambiguous bi-directional translation. > > > > -Josh > > > > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:07 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> On Oct 21, 9:51 pm, Wayne Mackintosh wrote: > >> > > >> > Our current approach at the OER Foundation with regards to > >> > student-content > >> > interactions is incremental -- simply because we do not have the > >> > financial > >> > capacity for the complexities associated with the GIFT approach at > this > >> > time. > >> > >> That is all the more reason to ask the Wikimedia Foundation -- to whom > >> $2,500 is a very small sum relative to their dozens-of-millions dollar > >> budget -- to take Yaron Cohen up on his offer to add GIFT to Mediawiki > >> for everyone. If Wikieducators could speak with a unified voice on > >> this subject, I am sure that the Wikimedia Foundation would listen. > >> > >> I have been involved in XML-based question markup since the IEEE P1484 > >> LTSC Learning Technologies Standards Committee and IMS.org were > >> working on early versions of QTI in the 1990s. There is no doubt in > >> my mind that a coherent endorsement from the community and adoption in > >> Mediawiki would cause crystallization around a single, user-friendly > >> format which hasn't happened in the past decades of committee work. > >> > >> On Oct 21, 11:35 pm, Joshua Gay wrote: > >> > > >> > Is there a formal definition of the GIFT syntax somewhere (e.g., > >> > Bakus-Naur > >> > format) so that I can more easily write a parser? > >> > >> Sure, it's defined by Moodle's implementation -- > >> > http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/question/format/gift/format.php?view=markup > >> -- but there are also various guides linked from > >> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift > >> > >> > Supporting GIFT on top of MediaWiki does seem possible, but, what is > >> > your > >> > suggestion for working around the fact that standard MW symbols and > GIFT > >> > symbols collide? Something like <gift> tags? > >> > >> That would work, but a separate Mediawiki namespace for questions, I > >> think may have been the design plan from around April 2010. > >> > >> > It seems very similar to Connexions QML format -- > >> > http://cnx.org/help/authoring/xml#qml -- what makes GIFT better? > >> > >> The primary benefit of GIFT is that it is much more concise. Here is > >> the example from http://cnx.org/content/m10139/latest/ in GIFT: > >> > >> ::item1:: Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? > >> { =A fruit. # Correct! ~A vegetable. # Incorrect } > >> // specific-help: Bananas grow on trees. > >> // general-help: Fruits grow on trees. > >> > >> Would you rather type that or this...? > >> > >> <q:item id="item1" type="single-response"> > >> > >> <q:question> > >> Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? > >> </q:question> > >> > >> <q:answer id="fruit1"> > >> <q:response>A fruit.</q:response> > >> <q:feedback>Correct!</q:feedback> > >> </q:answer> > >> > >> <q:answer id="vegetable1"> > >> <q:response>A vegetable.</q:response> > >> <q:feedback>Incorrect.</q:feedback> > >> </q:answer> > >> > >> <q:hint>Bananas grow on trees.</q:hint> > >> <q:hint>Fruits grow on trees.</q:hint> > >> <q:feedback>Bananas are a fruit.</q:feedback> > >> > >> <q:key answer="fruit1" /> > >> > >> </q:item> > >> > >> > (For example, I noticed that CNX QML supports > >> > "hints", whereas GIFT does not). > >> > >> Tim Hunt of the Moodle development team has suggested that the comment- > >> based extensions described at > >> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift#Learner_adaptation > >> can be used for hints, as shown above. > >> > >> > Lastly, may I suggest that you refer to GIFT as a "lightweight markup > >> > language." > >> > >> I agree it is one, but I think Tantek Çelik has a definition of a > >> picoformat somewhere on microformats.org which GIFT fits. > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:34 PM, James Salsman wrote: > >> > > Wayne, > >> > > >> > > Will you please endorse open self-study assessment content? E.g., > >> > > Moodle's GIFThttp://microformats.org/wiki/gift?This kind of content > >> > > overlaps with polls. A polling system can often be used for > assessment > >> > > and an assessment system can often be used for polling; the two > should > >> > > be able to share the same code for presenting questions to users. > >> > > >> > > As you know, there are large numbers of open and free educational > >> > > resources, but many fewer with open assessments to allow for self- > >> > > study evaluation, and which in turn can be used to recommend a place > >> > > to start for learners of varied backgrounds to begin in lengthy > texts. > >> > > Low stakes quizzes as a study activity are also valuable in their > own > >> > > right. > >> > > >> > > Several weeks ago you said you would address this in a few weeks. > Why > >> > > the delay? Yaron Cohen, one of the Semantic Mediawiki developers, > has > >> > > had a standing offer to add GIFT support to Mediawiki for $2,500 > since > >> > > the middle of last Summer. It is a shame that nobody has yet stepped > >> > > forward to make it happen. > >> > > >> > > Sincerely, > >> > > James Salsman > > > > > > > > -- > > "Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test > > scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > -- Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org> Director, International Centre for Open Education, Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. Founder and elected Community Council Member, Wikieducator<http://www.wikieducator.org%20> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 Skype: WGMNZ1 Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]
