P.S. For "on my blog" I meant to write "on his blog" sorry.
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:47 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> wrote: > Are there any WikiEducators who agree with Joshua that GIFT needs > further formalization before endorsement? > > I strongly disagree. Further delay on endorsing GIFT would do a huge > disservice to the education and wiki communities. I've been involved > in the standardization efforts on this topic for decades, and nothing > Joshua has said here or on my blog has convinced me that advocating > for the absurd amount of typing inherent in the XML approach he > advocates is not a travesty. Even if wikitext were XML instead of > wikitext, I would still be in favor of wikitext instead of XML. > > Regards, > James Salsman > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Joshua Gay <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thinking about this issue further, I went ahead and wrote a blog-post that >> captures my perspectives on markup languages for educational assessment, >> here is a link, http://joshuagay.org/blog/?p=78 >> >> >> James, thanks for responses. I think that GIFT really needs to be formalized >> a bit more. I like the idea of a simple, text-based way of inputting >> assessments into wikis and learning management systems, but, it is unclear >> based on the documentation (including the source code you referenced) how >> robust the language actually is. I would love to see it paired with an >> XML-based language definition along with some translation rules that allowed >> you to do unambiguous bi-directional translation. >> >> -Josh >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:07 PM, James Salsman <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Oct 21, 9:51 pm, Wayne Mackintosh wrote: >>> > >>> > Our current approach at the OER Foundation with regards to >>> > student-content >>> > interactions is incremental -- simply because we do not have the >>> > financial >>> > capacity for the complexities associated with the GIFT approach at this >>> > time. >>> >>> That is all the more reason to ask the Wikimedia Foundation -- to whom >>> $2,500 is a very small sum relative to their dozens-of-millions dollar >>> budget -- to take Yaron Cohen up on his offer to add GIFT to Mediawiki >>> for everyone. If Wikieducators could speak with a unified voice on >>> this subject, I am sure that the Wikimedia Foundation would listen. >>> >>> I have been involved in XML-based question markup since the IEEE P1484 >>> LTSC Learning Technologies Standards Committee and IMS.org were >>> working on early versions of QTI in the 1990s. There is no doubt in >>> my mind that a coherent endorsement from the community and adoption in >>> Mediawiki would cause crystallization around a single, user-friendly >>> format which hasn't happened in the past decades of committee work. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 11:35 pm, Joshua Gay wrote: >>> > >>> > Is there a formal definition of the GIFT syntax somewhere (e.g., >>> > Bakus-Naur >>> > format) so that I can more easily write a parser? >>> >>> Sure, it's defined by Moodle's implementation -- >>> http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/question/format/gift/format.php?view=markup >>> -- but there are also various guides linked from >>> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift >>> >>> > Supporting GIFT on top of MediaWiki does seem possible, but, what is >>> > your >>> > suggestion for working around the fact that standard MW symbols and GIFT >>> > symbols collide? Something like <gift> tags? >>> >>> That would work, but a separate Mediawiki namespace for questions, I >>> think may have been the design plan from around April 2010. >>> >>> > It seems very similar to Connexions QML format -- >>> > http://cnx.org/help/authoring/xml#qml -- what makes GIFT better? >>> >>> The primary benefit of GIFT is that it is much more concise. Here is >>> the example from http://cnx.org/content/m10139/latest/ in GIFT: >>> >>> ::item1:: Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? >>> { =A fruit. # Correct! ~A vegetable. # Incorrect } >>> // specific-help: Bananas grow on trees. >>> // general-help: Fruits grow on trees. >>> >>> Would you rather type that or this...? >>> >>> <q:item id="item1" type="single-response"> >>> >>> <q:question> >>> Are bananas a fruit or a vegetable? >>> </q:question> >>> >>> <q:answer id="fruit1"> >>> <q:response>A fruit.</q:response> >>> <q:feedback>Correct!</q:feedback> >>> </q:answer> >>> >>> <q:answer id="vegetable1"> >>> <q:response>A vegetable.</q:response> >>> <q:feedback>Incorrect.</q:feedback> >>> </q:answer> >>> >>> <q:hint>Bananas grow on trees.</q:hint> >>> <q:hint>Fruits grow on trees.</q:hint> >>> <q:feedback>Bananas are a fruit.</q:feedback> >>> >>> <q:key answer="fruit1" /> >>> >>> </q:item> >>> >>> > (For example, I noticed that CNX QML supports >>> > "hints", whereas GIFT does not). >>> >>> Tim Hunt of the Moodle development team has suggested that the comment- >>> based extensions described at >>> http://microformats.org/wiki/gift#Learner_adaptation >>> can be used for hints, as shown above. >>> >>> > Lastly, may I suggest that you refer to GIFT as a "lightweight markup >>> > language." >>> >>> I agree it is one, but I think Tantek Çelik has a definition of a >>> picoformat somewhere on microformats.org which GIFT fits. >>> >>> > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:34 PM, James Salsman wrote: >>> > > Wayne, >>> > >>> > > Will you please endorse open self-study assessment content? E.g., >>> > > Moodle's GIFThttp://microformats.org/wiki/gift?This kind of content >>> > > overlaps with polls. A polling system can often be used for assessment >>> > > and an assessment system can often be used for polling; the two should >>> > > be able to share the same code for presenting questions to users. >>> > >>> > > As you know, there are large numbers of open and free educational >>> > > resources, but many fewer with open assessments to allow for self- >>> > > study evaluation, and which in turn can be used to recommend a place >>> > > to start for learners of varied backgrounds to begin in lengthy texts. >>> > > Low stakes quizzes as a study activity are also valuable in their own >>> > > right. >>> > >>> > > Several weeks ago you said you would address this in a few weeks. Why >>> > > the delay? Yaron Cohen, one of the Semantic Mediawiki developers, has >>> > > had a standing offer to add GIFT support to Mediawiki for $2,500 since >>> > > the middle of last Summer. It is a shame that nobody has yet stepped >>> > > forward to make it happen. >>> > >>> > > Sincerely, >>> > > James Salsman >> >> >> >> -- >> "Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test >> scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]
