On 29/11/14 10:05, Lodewijk wrote: > Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank > account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be > robust enough for that.
My understanding is this is mostly a problem in the US, from what I heard from Garfield. I asked him because Wikimedia CH broadcast its IBAN number everywhere for the fundraising, so I would have liked to know of any potential problem, but there does not seem to be any in Europe. (I don't know much about the US banking system, but it looks like knowing someone's account number may indeed be enough to wreak havoc on their account; see for example the recollection of computer scientist Donald Knuth, who had to stop sending checks to people who discover errors in his books: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/news08.html) > I know that all charities in the Netherlands post > this number on their website - maybe it could be worth while to reach out > and see if switching banks might improve the security, if Citibank didn't > fix it themselves? It is definitively the case in Switzerland too -- and the reason why we (Wikimedia CH) are very efficient at low cost fundraising: the marginal cost of direct bank deposit is close to 0%. And we get about 6 bank deposits for every credit card donation. F. > Anyway, best of luck with fixing the underlying problem! > > Best, > Lodewijk > > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Garfield Byrd <gb...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > >> Lodewijk, >> >> IBAN and bank account information is sent out upon request due to the level >> of attempted bank fraud when the account information was posted on the >> website. >> >> I can review with our bank to see if IBAN security and fraud protection has >> improved so that we can publicly post our IBAN number. >> >> Regards, >> >> Garfield >> >> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Patricia, >>> >>> Thanks for telling that the iDEAL will be back soon. I don't quite >>> understand from your answer why you add the increased hurdle of emailing >>> the team for the IBAN though. Am I overlooking something? >>> >>> Best, >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Patricia Pena <pp...@wikimedia.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Lodewijk, >>>> >>>> Currently IDEAL is temporarily down on our pages (it went into >>> maintenance >>>> mode after our annual campaign), but should be back up soon :) We know >>>> the importance of this method for Dutch donors and have supported this >>>> option since we started fundraising in the NL. We also support offline >>> bank >>>> transfer (IBAN) and donors can get the account number with our Donor >>>> Services team. >>>> >>>> We had an extremely successful Fundraising campaign this year, and >> there >>>> will be some great mobile optimization coming up in the next few >> months, >>>> which will allow mobile donors to complete their donations in a much >>> faster >>>> and easier way. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Pats >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Lodewijk < >> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A while back now, the chapters were no longer allowed to fundraise, >>>> because >>>>> the Wikimedia Foundation argued they would be better able to do this. >>> At >>>>> the time, this sounded somewhat reasonable. However, since then, >> there >>>> have >>>>> been some disturbing developments - at least for Dutch donors. >>>>> >>>>> No longer it is possible to pay electronically (iDEAL, one of the >> most >>>>> common methods is no longer supported - 'electronic banking' simply >>>> refers >>>>> you back to the credit card page) or even via regular bank transfer >>>> (using >>>>> an IBAN) in the Netherlands. The donation page >>>>> < >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage&country=NL&uselang=en&utm_medium=spontaneous&utm_source=fr-redir&utm_campaign=spontaneous >>>>>> >>>>> only >>>>> allows credit card and paypal, and the 'other ways to give' simply >>> sends >>>>> you to the helpdesk if you want to make a bank transfer payment. >>>>> >>>>> What is the reasoning behind this? Have bank transfers become a legal >>>>> swamp? Are there statistics suggesting that this method was no longer >>>>> required by donors? Did the European bank account somehow get >>> temporarily >>>>> suspended? >>>>> >>>>> If it has become so hard to donate, maybe it makes more sense to send >>> the >>>>> donors to the local chapter pages where they can actually donate in >> the >>>>> local suitable methods (in this case, Wikimedia Netherlands offers >> both >>>>> iDEAL and IBAN >>>>> <http://www.wikimedia.nl/pagina/doneren-aan-wikimedia-nederland>). >>>>> >>>>> One of the Dutch OTRS team members asked for elaboration, but didn't >>>> quite >>>>> get a satisfying answer. I hope this is a temporary situation, and >> that >>>>> this threshold will be removed again. It would be sad if we go >> through >>>> all >>>>> kind of trouble to enable long tail methods like bitcoin, but skip >> bank >>>>> transfer... >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Lodewijk >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Pats Pena | Sr. Manager, Global Operations >>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>> office +1 (415) 839 6885 x6764 >>>> cell: +1 (415) 816 3349 >>>> fax: +1 (415) 284 9511 >>>> pp...@wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in >>> the >>>> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate. >>>> <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>* >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Garfield Byrd >> Chief of Finance and Administration >> Wikimedia Foundation >> 415.839.6885 ext 6787 >> 415.882.0495 (fax) >> www.wikimediafoundation.org >> >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in >> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! >> >> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>* >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
