..and I dream of repetitive metrics that can be compared year to year On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as one for Wiki Loves > Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted. > > There is too much pointless political flim flam already in our Wikimedia > community without masking events as GenderGap for the sake of faking > metrics. > > Fae > On 3 Jan 2015 15:50, "Jane Darnell" <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > ..and I am hoping to see lots of "gendergap paint" > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing > > > list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the > wider > > > community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do > this, > > > means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped. > > > > > > As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual > Engagement > > > Grants as well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed > > > < > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html > > > >by > > > Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this onwiki description > > > < > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign > > > >. > > > I should also emphasize that Alex indicated that they don't expect this > > to > > > impact WLM-related grants (because they expect teams to request funding > > > much > > > later in the process > > > < > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html > > > > > > > - not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also > > > suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to > > > discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email). > > > > > > I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is > the > > > problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in our community, of which the > > > gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel > > > uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past > > > week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people > > > confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community > support > > > (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for > gendergap-related > > > projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or > > jealousy. I > > > called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not > > about > > > actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather > > > about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that > > > people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap > > > related event. > > > > > > What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny > bit > > of > > > 'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is > > > basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with > less > > > than 90% men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic > > > priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including > > Wiki > > > Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively more women than the > > editor > > > population contains. But I am very unhappy if we start distributing > > grants > > > on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in > general > > > editor retention, which happens to be relatively more women. The focus > of > > > the projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared > > to > > > the actual activities. > > > > > > Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider > the > > > way this has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing > > on > > > supporting efforts in a thematic direction, rather than discouraging > > other > > > thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly > > > against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the > idea > > > to focus entirely on photo-events only for three months... > > > > > > Best, > > > Lodewijk > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.b...@wikimedia.de> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for > > the > > > > grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the > > > > grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and > adding a > > > > voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding > chances. > > > > > > > > So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked > > > plans > > > > before having a propably heated debate about it. > > > > > > > > Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a > > general > > > > grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work > > on > > > a > > > > supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression > on > > > > many people. > > > > > > > > best regards > > > > > > > > Jens Best > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this > case > > it > > > > is > > > > > about female participation. > > > > > > > > > > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants > is > > > > > dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this > > does > > > > not > > > > > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not > particular > > > > aiming > > > > > for female contributors. > > > > > > > > > > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects. > > That > > > > is > > > > > a very bad situation. > > > > > > > > > > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap. > > > > > > > > > > Bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in > > > > > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with > > only > > > > 6% > > > > > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem > > for > > > > the > > > > > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a > > main > > > > > theme > > > > > > for the coming three months. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki < > > romaine.w...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jane, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the > > > > > coverage > > > > > > of > > > > > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the > projects > > > > which > > > > > > do > > > > > > > not aim for such. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and > > > that > > > > > > never > > > > > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is > > damaging > > > > the > > > > > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with > the > > > > vision > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Wikimedia movement has. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully > many, > > > > > targeted > > > > > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would > > not > > > > have > > > > > > > excluded other projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a > > move > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > wrong direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a > > > special > > > > > > > category for pink buildings. > > > > > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken > > seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there > > is > > > no > > > > > > need > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking > > > about > > > > > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The > > > current > > > > > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted > at > > > the > > > > > > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current > > > growth > > > > > of > > > > > > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly > > > more > > > > > > energy > > > > > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month > > long > > > > > > theme, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is hoped that the following will occur: > > > > > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as > proposal > > > > > > reviewers > > > > > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in > > managing > > > > > > > proposals > > > > > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of > proposers > > > and > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > proposals. > > > > > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable > easier > > > > > > > translation > > > > > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in > > > advance > > > > > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee > > > > members > > > > > to > > > > > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in > various > > > > > > Wikimedia > > > > > > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great > > idea! > > > > How > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki < > > > > > romaine.w...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The > > > grant > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for > > Project > > > > and > > > > > > > Event > > > > > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for > three > > > > full > > > > > > > > months! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a > specific > > > > > > strategic > > > > > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects > > are > > > > > > refused > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > 3 months (February-April). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to > me. > > > > Having > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to > me > > > as > > > > > > such, > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But > > that > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other > > > projects > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > become the victim of other projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are > > > > currently > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and > > April. > > > > Good > > > > > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those > are > > > less > > > > > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this > > > sounds > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers > in > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 > > weeks > > > > > before > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, > > sadly > > > > it > > > > > > > isn't) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still > > > unpaid! > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the > time > > to > > > > > > > > communicate > > > > > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time > to > > > > come > > > > > up > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project > in > > > > just > > > > > a > > > > > > > > couple > > > > > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in > > getting a > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the > > period > > > > > > > indicates > > > > > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki > Loves > > > > > > Monuments > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better > > > documentation > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, > > > > recognised > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World > Records. > > > We > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good > > > > stable > > > > > > plan > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. > And > > > yes > > > > we > > > > > > > need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to > organize > > it > > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > team > > > > > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in > > January/February, > > > to > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners > and > > > > > > sponsors, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to > > > > > organize > > > > > > > Wiki > > > > > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and > > > > sponsors. > > > > > We > > > > > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get > such > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian > > > subjects > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various > > Wikipedias. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This shutting down results in: > > > > > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit > > good > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > > proposals. > > > > > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers > > the > > > > > > quality > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the plans. > > > > > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, > for > > > no > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not > > > > frustrating > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap > > > > > project: > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to > > make > > > a > > > > > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the > > > > shutting > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down > is a > > > bad > > > > > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the > > Community > > > > Gap. > > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It > > is > > > > not > > > > > > new, > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the > drama > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with > the > > > > Visual > > > > > > > > Editor > > > > > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) > > > > (Maybe > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > gap > > > > > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the > > world, > > > > but > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who > are > > > > > speak a > > > > > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide > > community > > > > well > > > > > > > > > enough.) > > > > > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with > great > > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of > all > > > > human > > > > > > > > > knowledge!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
