The Odia-language itself is gender neutral though we have some gender-specific pronouns. So we never worried about these issues. :)
Subhashish On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote: > Mmmm, the Hebrew Wikipedia has been gender-neutral for at least eight years > :) > > So Commons is not exactly the first project to do this. > > > בתאריך 12 באפר׳ 2017 10:14 AM, "Fæ" <fae...@gmail.com> כתב: > > I am delighted to say that Wikimedia Commons is today the /first/ > project to have an official Gender-neutral language policy for its > policies and help pages, so that the project is a welcoming > environment for all. Thanks to everyone that took part in the > discussions and vote! > > * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_ > neutral_language > * > > The proposal was an unplanned outcome from the WM-LGBT+ user group > taking part in this year's Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, part of all > the creative discussions that go on when so many international > Wikimedians get together. > > If you missed it, the English Wikipedia has an ongoing 'lively' > Request for Comment for its own Gender-neutral policy for policies, > see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL > > Thanks > Fae > Wikmedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+ > https://telegram.me/wmlgbt > > On 8 April 2017 at 14:04, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I beg to differ with Anders final comment; > > > >> > >> And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in > >> introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream > (if > >> it ever will be) > > > > > > I have no issue within our policies and projects being a leader the use > of > > neutral language that encompasses all equally because neutrality is one > of > > the key pillars of the community. We can and must do better to ensure > that > > everyone has the ability to contribute on an equal basis. > > > > If a language doesnt have a gender neutral way to express an individual > > then we should be encouraging speakers to find alternative ways which can > > best express our neutral position > > > > On 8 April 2017 at 20:32, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Thanks for the French experience. :-) You may not have picked up on > >> the specific comment about the French Wikipedia a few days ago in the > >> general Wikimedia Commons Village Pump discussion:[1] > >> > >> "* Total Support. This is not only useful to the trans community, but > >> in the case of French, it is more inclusive for women also, as the > >> French (I'm writing French and this does not mean francophone) have > >> the disastrous tendency to masculinize everything pretending this is > >> the way the french grammar addresses "gender neutrality in French". I > >> would really like us to reflect on writing a best practice manual for > >> all those who want to have an inclusive language (coupled with a non > >> violent communication guide for online practices). Actually on the > >> French wikipedia, most pronouns are in the masculine form even on talk > >> / user / help pages, and when one raises the issue, one gets insults > >> and very silly remarks. --Nattes à chat" > >> > >> It is sad to see that the local community has difficulty staying > >> respectful or even civil when these gender related discussions arise, > >> and should be a welcoming and open debate about the facts for modern > >> language usage. There are no easy solutions, apart from persisting, > >> keeping the topic on our agenda, and gradually educating where we can, > >> even though this gets very tiring for our best volunteers! > >> > >> The French Wikipedia is not alone, and I have been told over the last > >> week of exactly the same problem of "silly comments" on the German > >> Wikipedia, and my experience with raising a Request for Comment > >> yesterday on the English Wikipedia[2] is that discussions on this do > >> include critical views being expressed, which is okay, in a > >> disrespectful way, which is definitely not okay! It's a shame that > >> even some administrators will defend intentionally disrespectful > >> comments as so-called "free speech", rather than a breach of our > >> civility policies or the basic WMF terms of use for our websites.[3] > >> > >> P.S. Florence, your email gets automatically put in spam when using > >> Google's email system. I'm not even sure how to stop that happening > >> for yahoo addresses to this list. > >> > >> Links > >> 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump# > >> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_policies_and_help_pages > >> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL > >> 3. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Fae > >> > >> On 7 April 2017 at 20:58, Florence Devouard <anthe...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > A couple of weeks ago, I was asked - in my capacity of meta admin - to > >> > change the phrasing of a site notice on meta, meant to call for > >> > participation to the month of Francophonie. > >> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki: > >> Centralnotice-template-WikiFranca_MC17&diff=prev&oldid=16482259 > >> > > >> > The sentence of the call in the site notice was in language neutral > >> > terminology. > >> > > >> > "les Wikimédien.nes" instead of the more traditionnal but non neutral > >> "les > >> > Wikimédiens". > >> > > >> > That phrasing raised an uproar on the French pump. So I replaced the > >> term by > >> > "nous" (we). Seems to settle things. > >> > > >> > Clearly the French speaking community is not ready to adopt the gender > >> > neutral specific language accross the francophones projects. > Alternatives > >> > (such as the "we") are possible but not always. > >> > > >> > Florence > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Le 06/04/2017 14:58, Fæ a écrit : > >> >> > >> >> Thanks for the examples from French and I'm sure that our experienced > >> >> translators will have in mind specific best practice guides to turn > >> >> to. I like your illustration of "un/une adminstra-teur-trice" to show > >> >> the challenges. The use of "singular they" remains uncomfortable for > >> >> many English readers, but it has become a recommended standard for > >> >> journalists writing in English.[1] > >> >> > >> >> Once the principle of gender neutrality is agreed, I just don't know > >> >> what our next steps will turn out to be for non-English versions. > >> >> However I am much encouraged by the positive views on Commons, and > I'm > >> >> hopeful we can, and should, find a way to set a better example for > our > >> >> fellow projects in our aim to feel welcoming for all contributors. > :-) > >> >> > >> >> Links > >> >> 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> Fae > >> >> Wikimedia LGBT+ > >> >> > >> >> On 6 April 2017 at 12:30, Antoine Musso <hashar+...@free.fr> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> Le 05/04/2017 à 12:52, Fæ a écrit : > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I'm taking that further by > >> >>>> proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies > and > >> >>>> help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or > >> >>>> she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> As a non native English speaker the use of a plural form definitely > >> >>> confuses me or at best. The example takes a sentence from > Commons:FAQ > >> >>> which roughly looks like: > >> >>> > >> >>> A photographer has to be given credit when his or her picture is > used. > >> >>> > >> >>> With the proposal to instead: > >> >>> > >> >>> A photographer has to be given credit when their picture is used. > >> >>> > >> >>> Why isn't "picture" plural as well? If using masculine as a neutral > >> >>> pronoum is the issue, just stop using the pronoum entirely. Eg one > can > >> >>> instead write: > >> >>> > >> >>> A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> That is going to be quite a challenge when ported to other > languages. > >> >>> For 'A photographer', the english indefinite article is gender less. > >> >>> > >> >>> In french that would be either 'un' (masculine) or 'une' (feminine). > >> >>> What some are advocating is using: > >> >>> > >> >>> Un/une photographe > >> >>> > >> >>> If the noun varies as well, that becomes messy. Here for > >> >>> 'administrateur': > >> >>> > >> >>> Un/une adminstra-teur-trice > >> >>> > >> >>> That is not solvable in french and all other latin based languages > most > >> >>> probably have the same issue (blame Rome!). > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Antoine "hashar" Musso > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > >> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > GN. > > President Wikimedia Australia > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > -- > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
