@ Rogol

The beginning reads "We, the undersigned members of the Wikimedia movement"
It is the "we" who have signed the statement that I am refering to.

James

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Richard Farmbrough <
rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:

> Primarily this is those who sign the statement  on meta.
>
> On 29 Apr 2017 20:41, "Rogol Domedonfors" <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > James
> >
> > If you cannot say who "We" are who do not support terrorism, then your
> > statement is both meaningless and ineffectual.  If you are specific, then
> > "we" need to know why you feel able to speak for "us".
> >
> > "Rogol"
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:33 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > @ Richard Thank you. I have adjusted that sentence to "We do not
> support
> > > terrorism."
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Richard Farmbrough <
> > > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "As a movement" is a phrase which I have trouble with.  WhiIe left it
> > is
> > > > very easy to make apple pie statements with little fear of
> > > contradiction, I
> > > > think it misees the point.  We provide information, neutral
> > information.
> > > > Perhaps we hope as individuals this discourages rather than
> encourages
> > > > certain forms of behaviour. But if we provided the information with
> the
> > > > goal of, for example, opposing terrorism we would cease to be a
> > neutral,
> > > > reliable sourgent,  thus defeating any such goal.
> > > >
> > > > Conversely it is far more convincing to say that we don't support
> > > > terrorism, that the statements are on their face absurd, that we
> > clearly
> > > > document the rise and fall of Isis, together with their actions both
> in
> > > the
> > > > Middle East and the wider world, and tother encourage anyone who
> doubts
> > > > this to read our articles on the subject.
> > > >
> > > > On 29 Apr 2017 19:52, "James Heilman" <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Richard I am not sure I am clear on what you mean. We are not
> > impartial
> > > > to
> > > > > everything. We oppose censorship and we oppose suppression of
> freedom
> > > of
> > > > > information. I think it is also perfectly fine to state that we as
> a
> > > > > movement oppose terrorism.
> > > > >
> > > > > Made a few more adjustments to this statement on meta
> > > > >
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Response_to_2017_ban_in_Turkey
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Richard Farmbrough <
> > > > > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > It is absolutely important to be clear that Wikipedia is
> impartial,
> > > or
> > > > at
> > > > > > least  substantially so.  This impartiality may be a threat to
> > some,
> > > > but
> > > > > it
> > > > > > could be counter-productive to make statements which are not
> > > carefully
> > > > > > thought through.  Those who support repressive regimes can easily
> > be
> > > > > pushed
> > > > > > into an absolutist mindset.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 29 Apr 2017 18:42, "Ivan Martínez" <gala...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 to Ting's idea about a statement
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also we can support from our corner sending tweets and e-mails
> to
> > > our
> > > > > > local
> > > > > > > embassies. Our friends from Turkey or someone who speaks
> turkish
> > > can
> > > > > > > support us with a hasthag? I posted #WikipediaSansürlendi but
> > maybe
> > > > is
> > > > > > > incorrect.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2017-04-29 12:16 GMT-05:00 Ting Chen <wing.phil...@gmx.de>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the Foundation and the chapters *must* make a
> statement
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > decisively contradicts the reason of the block: That
> Wikipedia
> > > > > supports
> > > > > > > > terrorism. There could be further texts in the statement
> which
> > > > > stresses
> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > principle of neutrality and our goal to spread knowledge, but
> > the
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > most important statement is to contradict the accusation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ah some times I miss Jay, he would immediately recognize how
> > > > > important
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > is to make such a statement. When national newspapers and
> > > > broadcasts
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > referring (I just heard the one in Deutschland Funk
> > > > > > > > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/dlf24-startseite.1441.de.html
> )
> > > this
> > > > > > > event,
> > > > > > > > there should be not only the accusation but always also a
> > > reaction.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ting
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Am 29.04.2017 um 10:43 schrieb Itzik - Wikimedia Israel:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Hey,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> FYI -  sad news from Turkish.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri*
> > > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
> > > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
> > > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely
> > > share
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > >> From: Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <it...@wikimedia.org.il>
> > > > > > > >> Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 11:42 AM
> > > > > > > >> Subject: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia
> > > > > > > >> To: Communications Committee <wmfc...@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39754909
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Reuters just published that a 15 minutes ago, so it will be
> > soon
> > > > all
> > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > >> the news.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> ---
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> *Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to the
> > online
> > > > > > > >> encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most popular
> > > > websites.*
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed.
> > > > > > > >> The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible from
> > > 08:00
> > > > > > (05:00
> > > > > > > >> GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities.
> > > > > > > >> People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access any
> > > Wikipedia
> > > > > > pages
> > > > > > > >> without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN).
> > > > > > > >> "After technical analysis and legal consideration based on
> the
> > > Law
> > > > > Nr.
> > > > > > > >> 5651, an administrative measure has been taken for this
> > > website,"
> > > > > > > Turkey's
> > > > > > > >> Information and Communication Technologies Authority was
> > quoted
> > > as
> > > > > > > saying.
> > > > > > > >> No reason was given.
> > > > > > > >> Turkey Blocks and Turkish media, including the Hurriyet
> Daily
> > > > News,
> > > > > > said
> > > > > > > >> the provisional order would need to be backed by a full
> court
> > > > ruling
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> next few days.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Social media was in uproar as news of the ban emerged, with
> > some
> > > > > users
> > > > > > > >> speculating that it might be a bid to suppress criticism on
> > > > > President
> > > > > > > >> Recep
> > > > > > > >> Tayyip Erdogan's Wikipedia page.
> > > > > > > >> Mr Erdogan narrowly won a controversial 16 April referendum
> on
> > > > > > > increasing
> > > > > > > >> his powers, but the issue has deeply divided the country.
> > > > > > > >> Turkey has temporarily blocked popular social media sites
> > > > including
> > > > > > > >> Facebook and Twitter in the past, especially in the wake of
> > mass
> > > > > > > protests
> > > > > > > >> or terror attacks.
> > > > > > > >> The government has previously denied censoring the internet,
> > > > blaming
> > > > > > > >> outages on spikes in usage after major events.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri*
> > > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
> > > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 <+972%2054-587-8078> |
> > > > http://www.wikimedia.org.il
> > > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely
> > > share
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > *Iván Martínez*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid *
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden
> tener
> > > una
> > > > > > > moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado.
> > > > > > > // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora:
> > > > > > https://donate.wikimedia.org
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > James Heilman
> > > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > > >
> > > > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >
> > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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