James If you cannot say who "We" are who do not support terrorism, then your statement is both meaningless and ineffectual. If you are specific, then "we" need to know why you feel able to speak for "us".
"Rogol" On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:33 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > @ Richard Thank you. I have adjusted that sentence to "We do not support > terrorism." > > J > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Richard Farmbrough < > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote: > > > "As a movement" is a phrase which I have trouble with. WhiIe left it is > > very easy to make apple pie statements with little fear of > contradiction, I > > think it misees the point. We provide information, neutral information. > > Perhaps we hope as individuals this discourages rather than encourages > > certain forms of behaviour. But if we provided the information with the > > goal of, for example, opposing terrorism we would cease to be a neutral, > > reliable sourgent, thus defeating any such goal. > > > > Conversely it is far more convincing to say that we don't support > > terrorism, that the statements are on their face absurd, that we clearly > > document the rise and fall of Isis, together with their actions both in > the > > Middle East and the wider world, and tother encourage anyone who doubts > > this to read our articles on the subject. > > > > On 29 Apr 2017 19:52, "James Heilman" <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Richard I am not sure I am clear on what you mean. We are not impartial > > to > > > everything. We oppose censorship and we oppose suppression of freedom > of > > > information. I think it is also perfectly fine to state that we as a > > > movement oppose terrorism. > > > > > > Made a few more adjustments to this statement on meta > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Response_to_2017_ban_in_Turkey > > > > > > James > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Richard Farmbrough < > > > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > It is absolutely important to be clear that Wikipedia is impartial, > or > > at > > > > least substantially so. This impartiality may be a threat to some, > > but > > > it > > > > could be counter-productive to make statements which are not > carefully > > > > thought through. Those who support repressive regimes can easily be > > > pushed > > > > into an absolutist mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 29 Apr 2017 18:42, "Ivan Martínez" <gala...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 to Ting's idea about a statement > > > > > > > > > > Also we can support from our corner sending tweets and e-mails to > our > > > > local > > > > > embassies. Our friends from Turkey or someone who speaks turkish > can > > > > > support us with a hasthag? I posted #WikipediaSansürlendi but maybe > > is > > > > > incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > 2017-04-29 12:16 GMT-05:00 Ting Chen <wing.phil...@gmx.de>: > > > > > > > > > > > I think the Foundation and the chapters *must* make a statement > > that > > > > > > decisively contradicts the reason of the block: That Wikipedia > > > supports > > > > > > terrorism. There could be further texts in the statement which > > > stresses > > > > > our > > > > > > principle of neutrality and our goal to spread knowledge, but the > > > first > > > > > and > > > > > > most important statement is to contradict the accusation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah some times I miss Jay, he would immediately recognize how > > > important > > > > it > > > > > > is to make such a statement. When national newspapers and > > broadcasts > > > > are > > > > > > referring (I just heard the one in Deutschland Funk > > > > > > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/dlf24-startseite.1441.de.html ) > this > > > > > event, > > > > > > there should be not only the accusation but always also a > reaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > Ting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 29.04.2017 um 10:43 schrieb Itzik - Wikimedia Israel: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hey, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> FYI - sad news from Turkish. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely > share > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > >> From: Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <it...@wikimedia.org.il> > > > > > >> Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 11:42 AM > > > > > >> Subject: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia > > > > > >> To: Communications Committee <wmfc...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39754909 > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Reuters just published that a 15 minutes ago, so it will be soon > > all > > > > > over > > > > > >> the news. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- > > > > > >> > > > > > >> *Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to the online > > > > > >> encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most popular > > websites.* > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed. > > > > > >> The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible from > 08:00 > > > > (05:00 > > > > > >> GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities. > > > > > >> People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access any > Wikipedia > > > > pages > > > > > >> without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN). > > > > > >> "After technical analysis and legal consideration based on the > Law > > > Nr. > > > > > >> 5651, an administrative measure has been taken for this > website," > > > > > Turkey's > > > > > >> Information and Communication Technologies Authority was quoted > as > > > > > saying. > > > > > >> No reason was given. > > > > > >> Turkey Blocks and Turkish media, including the Hurriyet Daily > > News, > > > > said > > > > > >> the provisional order would need to be backed by a full court > > ruling > > > > in > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> next few days. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Social media was in uproar as news of the ban emerged, with some > > > users > > > > > >> speculating that it might be a bid to suppress criticism on > > > President > > > > > >> Recep > > > > > >> Tayyip Erdogan's Wikipedia page. > > > > > >> Mr Erdogan narrowly won a controversial 16 April referendum on > > > > > increasing > > > > > >> his powers, but the issue has deeply divided the country. > > > > > >> Turkey has temporarily blocked popular social media sites > > including > > > > > >> Facebook and Twitter in the past, especially in the wake of mass > > > > > protests > > > > > >> or terror attacks. > > > > > >> The government has previously denied censoring the internet, > > blaming > > > > > >> outages on spikes in usage after major events. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 <+972%2054-587-8078> | > > http://www.wikimedia.org.il > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely > share > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > >> i/Wikimedia-l > > > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > , > > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > *Iván Martínez* > > > > > > > > > > *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid * > > > > > > > > > > // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener > una > > > > > moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. > > > > > // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: > > > > https://donate.wikimedia.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > James Heilman > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > > > > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
