False dichotomy Cheers, P -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rogol Domedonfors Sent: Saturday, 29 April 2017 9:46 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia
Richard Then you want to say "We the undersigned do not [etc]". Of course the implication is that everyone else does ... "Rogol" On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Richard Farmbrough < [email protected]> wrote: > Primarily this is those who sign the statement on meta. > > On 29 Apr 2017 20:41, "Rogol Domedonfors" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > James > > > > If you cannot say who "We" are who do not support terrorism, then > > your statement is both meaningless and ineffectual. If you are > > specific, then "we" need to know why you feel able to speak for "us". > > > > "Rogol" > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:33 PM, James Heilman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > @ Richard Thank you. I have adjusted that sentence to "We do not > support > > > terrorism." > > > > > > J > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Richard Farmbrough < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > "As a movement" is a phrase which I have trouble with. WhiIe > > > > left it > > is > > > > very easy to make apple pie statements with little fear of > > > contradiction, I > > > > think it misees the point. We provide information, neutral > > information. > > > > Perhaps we hope as individuals this discourages rather than > encourages > > > > certain forms of behaviour. But if we provided the information > > > > with > the > > > > goal of, for example, opposing terrorism we would cease to be a > > neutral, > > > > reliable sourgent, thus defeating any such goal. > > > > > > > > Conversely it is far more convincing to say that we don't > > > > support terrorism, that the statements are on their face absurd, > > > > that we > > clearly > > > > document the rise and fall of Isis, together with their actions > > > > both > in > > > the > > > > Middle East and the wider world, and tother encourage anyone who > doubts > > > > this to read our articles on the subject. > > > > > > > > On 29 Apr 2017 19:52, "James Heilman" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard I am not sure I am clear on what you mean. We are not > > impartial > > > > to > > > > > everything. We oppose censorship and we oppose suppression of > freedom > > > of > > > > > information. I think it is also perfectly fine to state that > > > > > we as > a > > > > > movement oppose terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > Made a few more adjustments to this statement on meta > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Response_to_2017_ban_in_Turkey > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Richard Farmbrough < > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It is absolutely important to be clear that Wikipedia is > impartial, > > > or > > > > at > > > > > > least substantially so. This impartiality may be a threat > > > > > > to > > some, > > > > but > > > > > it > > > > > > could be counter-productive to make statements which are not > > > carefully > > > > > > thought through. Those who support repressive regimes can > > > > > > easily > > be > > > > > pushed > > > > > > into an absolutist mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 29 Apr 2017 18:42, "Ivan Martínez" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 to Ting's idea about a statement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also we can support from our corner sending tweets and > > > > > > > e-mails > to > > > our > > > > > > local > > > > > > > embassies. Our friends from Turkey or someone who speaks > turkish > > > can > > > > > > > support us with a hasthag? I posted #WikipediaSansürlendi > > > > > > > but > > maybe > > > > is > > > > > > > incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-04-29 12:16 GMT-05:00 Ting Chen <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the Foundation and the chapters *must* make a > statement > > > > that > > > > > > > > decisively contradicts the reason of the block: That > Wikipedia > > > > > supports > > > > > > > > terrorism. There could be further texts in the statement > which > > > > > stresses > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > principle of neutrality and our goal to spread > > > > > > > > knowledge, but > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > most important statement is to contradict the accusation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah some times I miss Jay, he would immediately recognize > > > > > > > > how > > > > > important > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is to make such a statement. When national newspapers > > > > > > > > and > > > > broadcasts > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > referring (I just heard the one in Deutschland Funk > > > > > > > > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/dlf24-startseite.1441.de.h > > > > > > > > tml > ) > > > this > > > > > > > event, > > > > > > > > there should be not only the accusation but always also > > > > > > > > a > > > reaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 29.04.2017 um 10:43 schrieb Itzik - Wikimedia Israel: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hey, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> FYI - sad news from Turkish. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > > > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > > > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il > > > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can > > > > > > > >> freely > > > share > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > >> From: Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <[email protected]> > > > > > > > >> Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 11:42 AM > > > > > > > >> Subject: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia > > > > > > > >> To: Communications Committee > > > > > > > >> <[email protected]> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39754909 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Reuters just published that a 15 minutes ago, so it > > > > > > > >> will be > > soon > > > > all > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > >> the news. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> --- > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to > > > > > > > >> the > > online > > > > > > > >> encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most > > > > > > > >> popular > > > > websites.* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed. > > > > > > > >> The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible > > > > > > > >> from > > > 08:00 > > > > > > (05:00 > > > > > > > >> GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities. > > > > > > > >> People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access > > > > > > > >> any > > > Wikipedia > > > > > > pages > > > > > > > >> without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN). > > > > > > > >> "After technical analysis and legal consideration based > > > > > > > >> on > the > > > Law > > > > > Nr. > > > > > > > >> 5651, an administrative measure has been taken for this > > > website," > > > > > > > Turkey's > > > > > > > >> Information and Communication Technologies Authority > > > > > > > >> was > > quoted > > > as > > > > > > > saying. > > > > > > > >> No reason was given. > > > > > > > >> Turkey Blocks and Turkish media, including the Hurriyet > Daily > > > > News, > > > > > > said > > > > > > > >> the provisional order would need to be backed by a full > court > > > > ruling > > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> next few days. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Social media was in uproar as news of the ban emerged, > > > > > > > >> with > > some > > > > > users > > > > > > > >> speculating that it might be a bid to suppress > > > > > > > >> criticism on > > > > > President > > > > > > > >> Recep > > > > > > > >> Tayyip Erdogan's Wikipedia page. > > > > > > > >> Mr Erdogan narrowly won a controversial 16 April > > > > > > > >> referendum > on > > > > > > > increasing > > > > > > > >> his powers, but the issue has deeply divided the country. > > > > > > > >> Turkey has temporarily blocked popular social media > > > > > > > >> sites > > > > including > > > > > > > >> Facebook and Twitter in the past, especially in the > > > > > > > >> wake of > > mass > > > > > > > protests > > > > > > > >> or terror attacks. > > > > > > > >> The government has previously denied censoring the > > > > > > > >> internet, > > > > blaming > > > > > > > >> outages on spikes in usage after major events. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > > > > > > > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > > > > > > > >> +972-54-5878078 <+972%2054-587-8078> | > > > > http://www.wikimedia.org.il > > > > > > > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can > > > > > > > >> freely > > > share > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > > > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > > > >> i/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > >> New messages to: [email protected] > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > > , > > > > > > > >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject > > > > > > > >> = > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > > > > > > > > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject= > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > *Iván Martínez* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Presidente - 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