John

I wasn't asking for an explanation or discussion of what contributors to
this list think "knowledge" is or ought to be (fascinating and illuminating
though that would doubtless be).  I was suggesting that either someone
point to the already-agreed and easily-available common and agreed
definition of knowledge that the movement has been using in its mission
(not to mention its fundraising), or an admission that such a thing does
not yet exist.  Do you know of such an agreed position, and if so, are you
able to point to it?

"Rogol"

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:49 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, data becomes information becomes knowledge.
> Information imply organization of data, and knowledge imply processing of
> information.
>
> The description "knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular
> fact or circumstance" is from a dictionary, and I won't tell which one. It
> is not entirely correct.
> The description "facts told, heard, or discovered" is from Oxford Advanced
> Learners Dictionary, ISBN 9780194311410
>
> If you can't communicate a fact, because it is  like "exposing an ancient
> paper source to intense UV light", then other might say it is a moot fact.
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm aware that "knowledge" as a concept has a long history.  I would not
> > have expected the movement to have finally resolved the "problem of
> > knowledge", whatever that might be, nor did I say that I had.  I am
> > expressing surprise that there is not yet a common understanding that the
> > movement can rally round.
> >
> > "Rogol"
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Richard Farmbrough <
> > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > The problem of knowledge is much older than Wikipedia.  It is part of
> the
> > > reason that so many intelligent people belive things that are "simply
> not
> > > so".
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11 Aug 2017 11:52, "Rogol Domedonfors" <domedonf...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is it not rather late to be discussing what "knowledge" might be,
> > towards
> > > > the end of the second decade of a mission to bring the sum of human
> > > > knowledge to the world, and in the middle of a major effort to
> > determine
> > > > the strategy of the movement into its third and fourth decades?
> Surely
> > > by
> > > > now there is a clear, concise and actionable agreed definition of
> > > knowledge
> > > > that we can point to when people ask what all that money has been and
> > > > continues to be raised for?  Why not just point to that common
> position
> > > > that everyone has signed up to?
> > > >
> > > > "Rogol"
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:00 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Information is "facts told, heard, or discovered" (Oxford) or
> > > "knowledge
> > > > > communicated or received concerning a particular fact or
> > circumstance".
> > > > (I
> > > > > would say data and not knowledge, but knowledge is good enough for
> > > this.)
> > > > > If you can't observe the fact or circumstance, and can't
> communicate
> > > the
> > > > > fact, how can there be the information?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, this does not make sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ​
> > > > > > > Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ​very agree, the intangible sources are a really challenge to way
> > you
> > > > > look
> > > > > > at verifiability. Not only are wanting to gather the information
> > and
> > > > make
> > > > > > it possible for others to also access it the very nature of the
> > > sources
> > > > > is
> > > > > > dynamic and fragile bringing them into a tangible format risks
> the
> > > > > > continuation of knowledge gained, a kin to exposing an ancient
> > paper
> > > > > source
> > > > > > to intense UV light.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a lot of fantastic work going on around the world on how
> > to
> > > > > > "Europeanise" knowledge without destroying it  .  All of this
> gets
> > > more
> > > > > > complex when you learn that knowledge isnt just a few words its
> > part
> > > > of a
> > > > > > multidimensional connection to and in time, place, and
> > circumstances
> > > > by
> > > > > > bringing it into a one dimensional world like Wikipedia is in it
> > self
> > > > > > changing the very nature of the knowledge.   If our goal is to
> > > collect
> > > > > the
> > > > > > sum of all knowledge then we need to be free as communities to
> > > address
> > > > > the
> > > > > > uniqueness of the knowledge we seek within the bounds of
> > > > > culture(language)
> > > > > > from which it originates
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ​
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9 August 2017 at 04:12, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > JP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeb...@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to
> > > create
> > > > > > > > something different from Wikipedia. This is about core
> content
> > > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral
> > point
> > > of
> > > > > > view.
> > > > > > > > The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where
> > > projects
> > > > > > > rewrite
> > > > > > > > world history to focus on their own local view.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <
> gnanga...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so
> > > who's
> > > > > > > culture
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the
> > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <
> > jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on
> > > > > _content_,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that
> > > content.
> > > > > > > > > > Note also that there are some differences on use of
> _facts_
> > > > that
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > highly
> > > > > > > > > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
> > > > > > > > > > Armenian genocide for example.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <
> > > gnanga...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies
> > > being
> > > > > > > global
> > > > > > > > > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/
> > > > abstract
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This article explores the relationship between
> linguistic
> > > > > culture
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based
> on
> > > > > article
> > > > > > > > > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary
> > > research
> > > > > > > analysis
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > number of images, references, internal links,
> external
> > > > links,
> > > > > > > > words,
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and
> > > > Featured
> > > > > > > > > articles
> > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high
> > > diversity
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > approaches
> > > > > > > > > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We
> > > > > > demonstrate
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation
> are
> > > not
> > > > > > > globally
> > > > > > > > > > > shared
> > > > > > > > > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's
> > > influence
> > > > > > > > determines
> > > > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary
> for
> > > > > > > > encyclopedic
> > > > > > > > > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards
> for
> > > > > > > > encyclopedic
> > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and
> “objective”
> > > but
> > > > > > local
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > > subjective.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <
> > > zvand...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language
> > version...
> > > > > > > > > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not
> > seem
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > pf
> > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > > > importance
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ziko
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do.
> 3.
> > > Aug.
> > > > > > 2017
> > > > > > > um
> > > > > > > > > > > 14:42:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Five pillars are moot.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <
> > > > > > gnanga...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take
> > > away
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > ability
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the
> > > > > opportunity
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > banned
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a
> > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the
> > > > Incubator
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up
> you
> > > give
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > best
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guide
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that
> project
> > > > goes
> > > > > > > live,
> > > > > > > > > > ince a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop
> its
> > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > projects,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating
> > > community
> > > > > > > spends
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <
> > > > > > > jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen
> the
> > > > > > > maintenance
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > process,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not increase them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
> > > > > > > > strain...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed
> by
> > > > board
> > > > > > > > > > resolution,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required
> > to
> > > > keep
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise,
> > people
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to
> > > push
> > > > > > stuff
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > en.wp.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an
> RFC
> > > on
> > > > > meta
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > > > > have,
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower
> to
> > > > > > > implement,
> > > > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > > > > > alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank
> you
> > to
> > > > > rule
> > > > > > > > > pushing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > local context.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is
> > > > > different,
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the
> > > > > community
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and
> > the
> > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it
> can
> > > > evolve
> > > > > > > > > > differently
> > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized
> repository
> > > and
> > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much
> more
> > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > small
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > communities.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strainu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
> > > > > > > > > jeb...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > core
> > > > > > > > > > > content
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly
> > > all,
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated
> or
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > partial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them
> and
> > > > keep
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > updated.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content
> > > > policies
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of
> > time
> > > > in,
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta.
> > The
> > > > > > central
> > > > > > > > > > > policies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > wiki/The_no_original_research_
> > > > > > > > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > > to
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local
> > > projects
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > refine
> > > > > > > > > > > those?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate,
> > without
> > > > "no
> > > > > > > > > original
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > research"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external
> > > sources.
> > > > > It
> > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia.
> > > > > Likewise,
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not
> > > diverge
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > creators
> > > > > > > > > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > view"…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really
> > nice
> > > > if
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual
> > > projects
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > central
> > > > > > > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pages,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the
> projects.
> > > Thus
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects
> > > > > > (Wikipedia,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Wikibooks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________
> > > _________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to:
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.
> > > org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > ?subject=
> > > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________
> > _________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.
> > org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
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> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@
> > lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > ?subject=
> > > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________
> _________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.
> org
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> > > > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/
> > > wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > ?subject=
> > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > ?subject=
> > > > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
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> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
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> ?subject=
> > > > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > > unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>
_______________________________________________
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