Probably that is verifiability. On 11 Aug 2017 12:31, "Rogol Domedonfors" <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm aware that "knowledge" as a concept has a long history. I would not > have expected the movement to have finally resolved the "problem of > knowledge", whatever that might be, nor did I say that I had. I am > expressing surprise that there is not yet a common understanding that the > movement can rally round. > > "Rogol" > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Richard Farmbrough < > rich...@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote: > > > The problem of knowledge is much older than Wikipedia. It is part of the > > reason that so many intelligent people belive things that are "simply not > > so". > > > > > > On 11 Aug 2017 11:52, "Rogol Domedonfors" <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Is it not rather late to be discussing what "knowledge" might be, > towards > > > the end of the second decade of a mission to bring the sum of human > > > knowledge to the world, and in the middle of a major effort to > determine > > > the strategy of the movement into its third and fourth decades? Surely > > by > > > now there is a clear, concise and actionable agreed definition of > > knowledge > > > that we can point to when people ask what all that money has been and > > > continues to be raised for? Why not just point to that common position > > > that everyone has signed up to? > > > > > > "Rogol" > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:00 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Information is "facts told, heard, or discovered" (Oxford) or > > "knowledge > > > > communicated or received concerning a particular fact or > circumstance". > > > (I > > > > would say data and not knowledge, but knowledge is good enough for > > this.) > > > > If you can't observe the fact or circumstance, and can't communicate > > the > > > > fact, how can there be the information? > > > > > > > > Sorry, this does not make sense. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very agree, the intangible sources are a really challenge to way > you > > > > look > > > > > at verifiability. Not only are wanting to gather the information > and > > > make > > > > > it possible for others to also access it the very nature of the > > sources > > > > is > > > > > dynamic and fragile bringing them into a tangible format risks the > > > > > continuation of knowledge gained, a kin to exposing an ancient > paper > > > > source > > > > > to intense UV light. > > > > > > > > > > There is a lot of fantastic work going on around the world on how > to > > > > > "Europeanise" knowledge without destroying it . All of this gets > > more > > > > > complex when you learn that knowledge isnt just a few words its > part > > > of a > > > > > multidimensional connection to and in time, place, and > circumstances > > > by > > > > > bringing it into a one dimensional world like Wikipedia is in it > self > > > > > changing the very nature of the knowledge. If our goal is to > > collect > > > > the > > > > > sum of all knowledge then we need to be free as communities to > > address > > > > the > > > > > uniqueness of the knowledge we seek within the bounds of > > > > culture(language) > > > > > from which it originates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9 August 2017 at 04:12, Jean-Philippe Béland < > > jpbel...@wikimedia.ca > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources. > > > > > > > > > > > > JP > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to > > create > > > > > > > something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content > > > > > policies. > > > > > > > Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral > point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > > The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where > > projects > > > > > > rewrite > > > > > > > world history to focus on their own local view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so > > who's > > > > > > culture > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the > > > > policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad < > jeb...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on > > > > _content_, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that > > content. > > > > > > > > > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ > > > that > > > > > are > > > > > > > > highly > > > > > > > > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies. > > > > > > > > > Armenian genocide for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra < > > gnanga...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies > > being > > > > > > global > > > > > > > > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/ > > > abstract > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic > > > > culture > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on > > > > article > > > > > > > > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary > > research > > > > > > analysis > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > number of images, references, internal links, external > > > links, > > > > > > > words, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and > > > Featured > > > > > > > > articles > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high > > diversity > > > of > > > > > > > > > approaches > > > > > > > > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We > > > > > demonstrate > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are > > not > > > > > > globally > > > > > > > > > > shared > > > > > > > > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's > > influence > > > > > > > determines > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for > > > > > > > encyclopedic > > > > > > > > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for > > > > > > > encyclopedic > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” > > but > > > > > local > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > subjective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk < > > zvand...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language > version... > > > > > > > > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not > seem > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > pf > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > importance > > > > > > > > > > > Ziko > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. > > Aug. > > > > > 2017 > > > > > > um > > > > > > > > > > 14:42: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five pillars are moot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra < > > > > > gnanga...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take > > away > > > > the > > > > > > > > ability > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus > from > > > the > > > > > > > > community > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the > > > > opportunity > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > banned > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a > > community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the > > > Incubator > > > > > that > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you > > give > > > > > them > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > > > guide > > > > > > > > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project > > > goes > > > > > > live, > > > > > > > > > ince a > > > > > > > > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its > > > > > > community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis > for > > > the > > > > > > > > projects, > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating > > community > > > > > > spends > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad < > > > > > > jeb...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the > > > > > > maintenance > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > process, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not increase them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu < > > > > > > > strain...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by > > > board > > > > > > > > > resolution, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required > to > > > keep > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, > people > > > with > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to > > push > > > > > stuff > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > en.wp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC > > on > > > > meta > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp > does > > > not > > > > > > have, > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to > > > > > > implement, > > > > > > > > let > > > > > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you > to > > > > rule > > > > > > > > pushing > > > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > local context. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is > > > > different, > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the > > > > community > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and > the > > > > > > community > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can > > > evolve > > > > > > > > > differently > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository > > and > > > > > trying > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > communities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strainu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad < > > > > > > > > jeb...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually > the > > > > same > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly > > all, > > > > > > because > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or > > > only > > > > > > > partial > > > > > > > > > > > > policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and > > > keep > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > updated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content > > > policies > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of > time > > > in, > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. > The > > > > > central > > > > > > > > > > policies > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > localized if necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > wiki/The_no_original_research_ > > > > > > > > > > > policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > wiki/Neutral_point_of_view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation > > to > > > > make > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > sound > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local > > projects > > > to > > > > > > > refine > > > > > > > > > > those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, > without > > > "no > > > > > > > > original > > > > > > > > > > > > > research" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external > > sources. > > > > It > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. > > > > Likewise, > > > > > at > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not > > diverge > > > > from > > > > > > > > > creators > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > view"… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really > nice > > > if > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > policies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual > > projects > > > > like > > > > > > > > central > > > > > > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pages, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. > > Thus > > > > the > > > > > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects > > > > > (Wikipedia, > > > > > > > > > > > Wikibooks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeblad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > _________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. > > org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@ > lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > ?subject= > > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: 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unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/ > > wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject= > > > > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject= > > > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > GN. > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> 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