colonialism *
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote: > I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again. > > Jean-Philippe Béland > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less interesting >> in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad idea, the >> translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles should also >> be >> pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie vertical articles, >> as the number of editors that can handle those will be pretty small. >> >> In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new editor! >> You can although turn an existing editor into a translator. >> >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are >> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. >> > >> > >> > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project. >> > >> > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts more >> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that >> tool >> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles >> that >> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the >> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. >> > >> > >> > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious. >> > >> > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner >> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in >> >> which >> >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian >> there >> >> is >> >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question. >> The >> >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for >> >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable >> >> volunteers. >> > >> > >> > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of >> > competing articles are pretty low. >> > >> > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require >> >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work >> >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so >> languages >> >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second >> >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be >> >> accepted. >> > >> > >> > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as >> > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?" >> > >> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which >> >> started back in 2011: >> >> >> >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are >> >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. >> >> >> >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. >> Thus >> >> we >> >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of the >> >> English articles. >> >> >> >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts >> more >> >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that >> tool >> >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles >> that >> >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love the >> >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. >> >> >> >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner >> >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in >> >> which >> >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian >> there >> >> is >> >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question. >> The >> >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And for >> >> languages in which we have little content there are often few avaliable >> >> volunteers. >> >> >> >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would require >> >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the work >> >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so >> languages >> >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second >> >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be >> >> accepted. >> >> >> >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple of >> >> years. >> >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn how >> to >> >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 (one >> for >> >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into Content >> >> Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the user name and >> >> password to the account. >> >> >> >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of >> >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. This >> >> includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO Essential >> >> List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The efforts have >> >> resulted >> >> in more than 5 million works translated and integrated into different >> >> Wikipedias. The coordinator has unfortunately moved on to his real job >> of >> >> teaching high school students. >> >> >> >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The >> Wikipedian >> >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically single >> >> handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a language spoken >> by >> >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for many >> of >> >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. >> >> Google >> >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our >> partnerships >> >> with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to translate into >> Chinese. >> >> There the students translate and than their translations are reviewed >> by >> >> their profs before being posted. They translate in groups using >> hackpad to >> >> make it more social. >> >> >> >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) >> >> James >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D >> >> > >> >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k >> >> articles, >> >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. >> >> > >> >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? >> There >> >> are >> >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand articles >> from >> >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the ten >> >> thousand >> >> > articles from the expanded list[2]. >> >> > >> >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word >> (about >> >> $1 >> >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into another >> >> > language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in high-cost >> >> > countries. The pay would also have to be higher for languages that >> lacks >> >> > good translation tools. >> >> > >> >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the communities, >> as >> >> > without a base set of articles it won't be possible to build a >> >> community at >> >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating >> >> well-referenced >> >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be avoided. >> >> Perhaps >> >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a help. >> >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they does >> not >> >> > have to be full translations of the source article. >> >> > >> >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other >> >> projects >> >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they >> need a >> >> lot >> >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit >> bias? >> >> > >> >> > [1] >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ >> >> > Wikipedia_should_have >> >> > [2] >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ >> >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> James Heilman >> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik >> >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik >> >> i/Wikimedia-l >> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
