Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here". " the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion with due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below. FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ#Why_is_this_project_moving_forward_after_the_RfC_resulted_in_clear_majority_opposition ?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop. " The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC feedback integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.) That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary > about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] > in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development > process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project > itself. > > The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The > RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page > [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they > are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making > further conclusions here. > > The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the > Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as > well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming > convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept > is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention > proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" > with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities. > > Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming > conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline > [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the > communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this > review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the > timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full > proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation > leadership and the Board. > > [1] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia > > [2] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team > > [3] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project > > [4] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ > > [5] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes > > across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a > > word with them here? > > > > > > - d. > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an > > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those > whose > > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just > > part of the heat in the kitchen. > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > > > > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not > > think > > > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably > spends > > > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects. > > > > > > Best > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > > > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I > > just > > > > didn't hear that. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > (Comment in personal capacity) > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty < > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline > > and > > > > > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > > > > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so > > we are > > > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening > > to all > > > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and > > > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the > > project > > > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and > > smaller > > > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month > > and > > > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a > > more > > > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions > > > > planned > > > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals > > are > > > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > > > > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > > > > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > > > > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts > > referred > > > > to > > > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team > will > > > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. > > Snøhetta > > > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual > models > > from > > > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified > > concept. > > > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work > > around > > > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design > > system. > > > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing > > after. > > > > You > > > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation > > of a > > > > > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline > > > > > > > > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > > > > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > > > > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > > > > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > > > > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is > > even > > > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the > > concerns > > > > > and > > > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have > now > > > > added > > > > > > an > > > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about > > the > > > > > block > > > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of > > > > updating > > > > > > the > > > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those > > pages > > > > > to > > > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial > > > > relationship > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban > > thats > > > > > been > > > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many > users > > who > > > > > been > > > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but > before > > > > they > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there > > needs to > > > > be > > > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the > > community > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to > > rebuild > > > > the > > > > > > hen > > > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they > > > > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped > > into > > > > the > > > > > > 2030 > > > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that > > should > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > > > > comprehensible > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, > why > > we > > > > > will > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an > > > > > > unwillingness > > > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have > > seen so > > > > > > far, it > > > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on > > how we > > > > > > > > operate, > > > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and > > plan > > > > to > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with > > lots > > > > of > > > > > > buzz, > > > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe > > I am > > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the > > outside? > > > > > > Block > > > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the > > > > > community. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > > > > [email protected]] > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a > > > > > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed > > > > > personally > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta > > deserved > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward > > of > > > > > > resources > > > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this > > > > project > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important > component > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF > > rebranding > > > > > > itself as > > > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the > > communities > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance > > > > problems, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I > don't > > > > think > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't > involve > > > > > Snøhetta > > > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, > and > > I've > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during > the > > past > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with > > this > > > > > > program > > > > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and > spending > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view > > on > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a > > branding > > > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on > > the > > > > > > project's > > > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should > be > > > > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > and > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > 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> > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > > > > > > August > > > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimania: > https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > > > > Noongarpedia: > > > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > 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