I'm personally not keen on the idea of the wiki-expedition as a grants
application. (For informational purposes, according to the Polish
chapter reps, the wiki-expedition was originally an Australian idea
which they found on Meta, but I'm not sure if the Australians who were
discussing the idea ever went ahead with it). Most of us do the
"Wiki-expedition" anyway - taking photos when we go to
under-represented areas, even detouring to a place just to take
photos. I'd honestly see the Wiki-expedition as a wasted grant for us
- I think there are far more important projects we should be looking
at for grants, particularly in the areas of education and outreach and
even more GLAM work.


On 5/5/10, Andrew <orderinchao...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to pitch an idea regarding a possible grant application.
>
> One of the interesting things that came up in Berlin (both Sarah and I
> attended the Outreach Case Studies session where this was discussed) was the
> Wikiexpedition done by the Polish Wikipedia - I understand the Czechs also
> undertook a similar thing and got a grant for it (which included petrol,
> accommodation and buying a camera), and I seem to remember Estonia and a few
> others talking along similar lines.
>
> I was talking with a WA volunteer today and one issue we have is that some
> areas of our great country are hopelessly under-covered. Speaking from a WA
> point of view, the Wheatbelt region immediately comes to mind, but I'm sure
> anyone reading this can think of somewhere nearby (or at least within reach)
> which falls into this category. In the past, despite my non-car-ownership,
> I've done what I can to address this, and two other Wikimedians, Mattinbgn
> and Bidgee (Robert), have done tremendous work in getting photos of things
> like town halls and other monuments in Victoria to illustrate our articles
> and build up Commons. That shows what *individuals* can do with an
> appropriate plan.
>
> The Wikiexpedition was basically a bunch of volunteers with cars (15-20?)
> who coordinated and were driving around taking photographs of basically
> anything that was of importance or interest. Being done over a set time with
> a specific deadline for completing the photo runs and uploading them to
> Commons maximised the value of the exercise. Having so many people available
> made it so much better than just having one, as they could split up and do
> different things in the same town, for instance, or one could take the
> backroads and another could take the main road. The Polish dealt a lot with
> local businesses, municipalities and tourist offices along the way so were
> able to promote the cause somewhat as well to an entirely unexpected
> audience.
>
> Achievable, tick. Clear scope and measurable end points, tick. Engages the
> membership, tick. Promotes Wikimedia, tick. Meets our statement of purpose
> and the goals of WMF, tick.
>
> OK, it's a bit unconventional, but what do others think?
>
>
> On 5 May 2010 17:30, private musings <thepmacco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 'Grant applications are serious, not something that you submit just to
>>
>> engage with a process and there needs to be a properly thought through
>> application with an idea of who, what, when, where and how the
>> proposed project will be run'
>> - totally agree with this- and agree that it's a large stretch to try and
>> get anything completed before the deadline - whether or not it's worth
>> trying is a different question, I guess :-)
>> 'I'd rather see us take the time to discuss possible ideas properly and
>>
>> get the details of any proposed projects members want to run nutted
>> out as carefully as possible before submitting applications'
>> - totally agree with this too - again, it does seem unlikely to be able to
>> get this all done ahead of the deadline - I guess I wish discussions and
>> activity had kicked off earlier - though that's largely down to us as a
>> membership - hopefully we can get the ball rolling anyways ahead of future
>> grant applications etc.
>>
>> 'Jimmy recently describing PM as a troll and calling for
>> him to be globally banned'
>> - this is not accurate - Jimbo never called me a troll, nor did he call
>> for
>> me to be globally banned - please take greater care in raising comments
>> about me personally as oppose to my posts.... however;
>> 'PM is really not an appropriate person to lead the chapter in requests to
>> the WMF for not-insignificant amounts of money'
>> - sure ;-) - as I mentioned I'd rather just try and help / chivvy /
>> expedite existing efforts - my concern is to make sure that something
>> happens - I'm concerned that we're heading for a pretty poor report card
>> for
>> the first half of 2010, and would like to help avoid that :-)
>> cheers,
>> Peter,
>> PM.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Sarah Ewart <sarahew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To be entirely frank, I would have to agree that given both the long
>>> term and recent "controversies" throughout WMF universe which
>>> culminated in Jimmy recently describing PM as a troll and calling for
>>> him to be globally banned, PM is really not an appropriate person to
>>> lead the chapter in requests to the WMF for not-insignificant amounts
>>> of money. However, I don't have a problem with him suggesting
>>> potential projects and then seeing how others feel about them and
>>> whether they gel with other projects people are currently involved in.
>>>
>>> I attended the session on grants at the chapters meeting in Berlin (my
>>> notes are up on the wiki here-
>>>
>>> http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/2010_chapters_meeting/Sarahs_notes#Working_group:_Volunteers
>>> )
>>> and we discussed the final date for grant applications and Eric made
>>> it clear that while May 15 is listed as the deadline, it's more like a
>>> preferred date. If applications are in by then they'll be processed
>>> more quickly, but we're welcome to submit applications after that
>>> date.
>>>
>>> Last year we had to pay back a grant a chapter member requested for an
>>> outreach conference they wanted to run because it fell through and
>>> didn't end up going ahead. Paying back the funds was a real headache
>>> for the committee (especially for Brian as the then-treasurer) and it
>>> took a considerable amount of time to resolve with the foundation. I
>>> don't want to see this happen again so I'd oppose any moves to rush
>>> through any ill-considered applications just to get them in before May
>>> 15 or that seem more orientated on getting money for the sake of it or
>>> for the simple stated purpose of engaging with the grant process.
>>> Grant applications are serious, not something that you submit just to
>>> engage with a process and there needs to be a properly thought through
>>> application with an idea of who, what, when, where and how the
>>> proposed project will be run. If we have to pay back another grant,
>>> it's going to reflect very poorly on the chapter so this isn't
>>> something that should just be slapped together at the last minute.
>>>
>>> I'd rather see us take the time to discuss possible ideas properly and
>>> get the details of any proposed projects members want to run nutted
>>> out as carefully as possible before submitting applications.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/5/10, Andrew <orderinchao...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I'll be straight up and state I'm not going to support this, for a
>>> variety
>>> > of reasons.
>>> >
>>> > Firstly, I don't think our chapter is capable of producing a grant
>>> > application to the standard WMF require for such a big area (education)
>>> in
>>> > 10 days that addresses all the things WMF expect us to address.
>>> >
>>> > Secondly, this appears to be trying to reinvent the wheel. Craig's
>>> project
>>> > up in Brisbane is already making significant advances, at least three
>>> other
>>> > chapter members have made contacts with (or have been contacted by)
>>> > educational departments and representative associations, and completed
>>> > resources already in use in schools exist in other languages from other
>>> > chapters - I'm presently trying to secure translations of these on
>>> behalf of
>>> > the chapter. Without any attempt to coordinate the various approaches,
>>> we're
>>> > not only less effective but also give the outward appearance of being
>>> > disorganised to the various educational bodies involved.
>>> >
>>> > Thirdly, given your recent conflict with, among other people, Jimbo
>>> Wales
>>> > and various concerns about past occasions when you have undertaken
>>> chapter
>>> > work (in particular the Dictionary of Sydney episode), I do not think
>>> you
>>> > personally should be making any outward representation of our chapter
>>> and,
>>> > if the grant were to be approved, I think someone else should lead it.
>>> >
>>> > kindest regards
>>> > Andrew
>>> >
>>> > On 5 May 2010 11:46, private musings <thepmacco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> G'day all,
>>> >>
>>> >> does the chapter have any grants proposals heading in this year?
>>> >>
>>> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index
>>> >>
>>> >> Do we have any structure for creating / supporting a chapter grant
>>> >> like
>>> >> this?
>>> >>
>>> >> I have a few ideas and opportunities - for wiki use in education,
>>> >> hopefully
>>> >> in partnership with nsw dep. of ed. - if I write something up in the
>>> next
>>> >> week or so, I suppose we could discuss it on our wiki, and forward it
>>> to
>>> >> the
>>> >> grants page linked above for consideration if appropriate?
>>> >>
>>> >> I think it's important for a functioning healthy chapter to try to
>>> engage
>>> >> with processes like this, so if you too have any ideas or
>>> opportunities,
>>> >> please do pipe up, and let's work on them on the wiki, and get them
>>> going
>>> >> :-)
>>> >>
>>> >> cheers,
>>> >>
>>> >> Peter,
>>> >> PM.
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
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>>
>>
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>

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