I agree with Gautam in that just "copyvio" is not the issue. It is the issue of "copyright violation, plagiarism and intellectual dishonesty". It needs to be tackled by teaching the skills of citation, paraphrasing and the many acceptable and unacceptable ways to reflect copied text and ideas in Wikipedia articles.
Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Gautam John <gau...@prathambooks.org>wrote: > On 12 September 2011 16:47, Theo10011 <de10...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Copyright violations aren't only important from an > academic plagiarism point > > of view but also legal and ethical, you seem to be only focusing on text > > based violation in Academia maybe. Commons users and admins spend the > better > > part of their time educating themselves and dealing with these violations > > from different countries not because of some honesty issues > but real legal > > ones.Violations more often than not, can lead to court cases, damages and > > expose the project to liability. > > No doubt but the Commons/Source model is broken for cases like India > where documents are in the public domain here but not in the USA. That > said, I digress. I agree with you on the legal issues around copyvio > and it is important from the WMF's point of view since they carry the > can on this. What I was uncomfortable with was what I saw as perhaps > an over-reaction to the issue. Sure, "rather safe than sorry" is a > possible answer but it's not one I favour because we tend to err too > much on the side of caution. > > > already complied with located here[1]. For images, I can attest to > spending > > several hundred hours talking on IRC and looking for copyright terms of > > different countries to comply with. > > No doubt, Theo and it's very important work too. > > > seriously. I am not sure if "Intellectual honesty" means ethics in this > > context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians > would > > be concerned about, it's really the legal liability that they expose WMF > and > > projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify. > > Here's is what I was highlighting - yes, the issue of copyvio is > important but given that this was in the context of an educational > program, the larger issue ought to have been in the context of > education - plagiarism and intellectual honesty and then about > copyvio. If you're going to talk about copyvio as the most important > element within an education program, it has a bearing on issues > outside of just the Wikimedia movement and is a much larger > discussion. > > >> > Second, if we don't uphold the "WMF policies" (they are actually > project > >> > policies, not the foundation's) in an officially sanctioned and > financed > >> > program, then who will? > > Again - I'm not saying they don't matter. I'm saying the priorities > are not in order. > > > As I saw it, you stated that copyright violations are no big deal, > > especially in India and the more important thing is being honest > > (Intellectually) when someone plagiarizes or something to that effect. > > I think I have explained myself, above. Copyvio is important but in > the current context, there are other elements that should have first > been considered. > > > I am well aware of your position as a open-source book publisher and a > > Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found > > your position very surprising on this issue. > > Appreciate your kind words, Theo. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >
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