I used to get broken text for Hindi/Devanagari and Tamil, and boxes for other scripts. Now I see no difference in the text on my phone.
On 12/13/11, Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com> wrote: > hi, > > Curious: Is anybody testing this for mobile web? Shiju's report last > week suggested an increase in traffic via mobile web, I think. > I have started trying to read ml.wiki on my cell pointing my phone > browser at ml.m.wikipedia.org and all I get are boxes right now. I'm > using Opera Mini browser on a Nokia E63. > Pradeep > Handheld > > On 14/12/2011, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabot...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Have found a few more bugs in testing (other than the ones mentioned in >> the >> original mail) >> >> 1) Nepali - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33039 >> 2) Sanskrit, Hindi and Nepali - >> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33038 >> 3) Odiya - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33034 >> 4) Sanskrit, Hindi - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33040 >> >> And they keep coming. At this rate me and srikanth should be paid per bug >> by the WMF. I am yet to touch Assamese, Marathi, Punjabi, Bengali or >> Firefox 4.x, 6.x and IE 6.0, 8.0 and have only began Chrome testing. I am >> totally wiped for the day and quitting testing. Will try to cover the >> other >> cases tomorrow. >> >> Two thoughts at the end of a long day: >> i) To i18n team: Instead of launching a such a buggy code, that too as a >> compulsory and default option for all users, why not listen to feedback >> and >> do proper testing?. Testing is always better than firefighting. Its never >> too late, roll back this "soft launch", form language teams, test this for >> a few weeks thoroughly and then do project by project launches. >> >> ii)To Hindi, Telugu, Kannada, Sanskrit, Oriya, Marathi, Assamese and >> Bengali folks on this list. Spread the word and test, test, test. File bug >> reports. This needs thorough testing in all OSes/browsers/connections by >> people who know the language. Learn from this experience and dont accept >> any untested products. Mayur has reported in one of the bugs that hi wiki >> users are reporting strange issues and has suggested making webfonts >> optional [1] A few weeks back i tried to warn the communities not to >> accept >> webfonts without proper testing. [2] What i feared has come to pass. >> Probably should have posted in all village pumps. >> >> ==Links== >> [1]https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33024 >> [2] >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < >> parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Also forgot to tell you. My college uses ONLY systems with Windows XP >>> and Internet Explorer 6. Most students are from a Tamil background, >>> and they read Tamil websites, Wikipedia very often. >>> >>> On 12/13/11, Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > Pardon for a long mail, just unavoidable. >>> > >>> > We have seen the WebFonts roll out[0] last night to most Indic wikis >>> except >>> > Malayalam and Tamil. We in Tamil Community felt WebFonts extension is >>> just >>> > not ready for us. We would like to share on why we in Tamil community >>> didnt >>> > chose webfonts and also what could work better in future for Indic >>> > communities during technology adoption. >>> > >>> > 1. *Unavailability of "Quality Free fonts"* :- >>> > During the development, our request for not setting the default font as >>> > a >>> > lower quality font was rejected citing "it will defeat the purpose of >>> > extension".[1] The available fonts had issues and deploying the >>> > extension >>> > with those low quality fonts to everyone would not only defeat the >>> purpose >>> > of extension, but also gives Tamil Wikipedia a bad image when people >>> > just >>> > cant read the fonts even though they had better fonts in system. (Just >>> like >>> > how i18n team says people who see boxes will just simply close the >>> window, >>> > we say giving these poor fonts will also lead to same thing and not >>> > help >>> > the cause, instead will also hurt those who have better fonts.). >>> > >>> > 2. *Quality of User Experience* :- >>> > We are a smaller wiki, we have a smaller reader base, but still we are >>> > ranked 7th most visited website in Tamil according to alexa[2]. Just >>> > like >>> > how no-nonsense / no-mediocrity is tolerated in any code that enters >>> > WMF >>> > cluster, any change which will affect the site's look and feel, user >>> > experience will have to be of highest standards and must be accepted by >>> > community. WebFonts were just not ready to enter Wikipedia, since it >>> > changes the UX for all the readers to help a potentially lower number >>> > of >>> > users who dont have Tamil fonts than the current existing reader base. >>> > >>> > *What we feel was wrong in WebFonts deployment* >>> > >>> > We have also been seeing the wikis where they have been rolled out and >>> > reporting issues. We ourselves are reporting issues inspite of not >>> > taking >>> > WebFonts, with the hope software just gets better and some day we can >>> > deploy them. Dont get us wrong, we are not against technology, we just >>> need >>> > it in better form and are not in any urgency. (After all we at Ta wiki >>> > initiated an RFC and asked Webfonts even before the announcement was >>> made). >>> > We would also like to mention some points which we feel i18n team could >>> > have done better for a smoother launch. >>> > >>> > 1. *Font Testing* :- >>> > The point of language support team is that the people who are aware of >>> > language give feedback to make any software better supported for the >>> > language. We are not sure if Font-Testing was ever done at all for >>> > those >>> > languages where the WebFonts were deployed. The hinting issue which was >>> > a >>> > concern and made us raise against deployment in Tamil is also present >>> > in >>> > Hindi,Sanskrit,Telugu(atleast till we saw) and gave the same worst >>> > readability. The i18n team did font assessment[3], testing only 1 word >>> > to >>> > test the font. Can any font be tested with just rendering of 4 >>> characters / >>> > 1 word? For Tamil,we did a test in little more comprehensive way(We >>> > would >>> > not say its complete)[4]. This should have been a *must* to see >>> rendering / >>> > font issues with chosen default font especially since the fonts are >>> > being >>> > set default to every single user to the site. Sadly community was >>> involved >>> > the least, a note was posted in Village pumps and we dont think >>> > community >>> > involved itself in any testing and poor quality was eventually pushed >>> > without proper testing. >>> > >>> > 2. *Real world testing* :- >>> > Though cross browser testing was done, there was a severe lack of real >>> > world testing and as a result we are seeing a host of issues being >>> > discovered post launch. Average PC in India might have 1 GB RAM, >>> > Firefox >>> 3 >>> > / 4, worse IE 5.5 / IE6 on 100 Kbps semi-broadband connection. We >>> > cannot >>> > tell them move to latest or ignore them. More care should have been >>> > taken >>> > especially since the webfonts is bound to set a default font. >>> > >>> > With only a few hours of testing serious issues have been found - in >>> > IE >>> 8 >>> > where webfonts might be rolled back [5], IE 7.0 (where webfonts dont >>> work) >>> > [6] , ubuntu + Firefox (fixed now) [7] and Win+Firefox 5.0, [8]. We >>> > are >>> > still testing for other browsers and usecases and dont know how many >>> issues >>> > we will discover. In short - This code is not ready to go live, >>> especially >>> > when it is being made default compulsorily for everyone. There are >>> serious >>> > performance issues for typical Indian internet connections as well.[9] >>> > >>> > 3. *Communication and Community Engagement* :- >>> > Most of the above things could have solved earlier if there was more >>> > communication and community engagement. We asked for more information, >>> > engagement on this very list. There was no reply to the mail on >>> increasing >>> > community engagement for i18n projects[10]. Most communities know >>> WebFonts >>> > is coming on Dec 12, didnt know what was coming, any further details. >>> > Worse, Even Indic Consultant was not having clear information. Why this >>> > lack of transparency? Community is more than willing to help, if only >>> they >>> > are informed. Even though we did not take up WebFonts, we have spent >>> > time >>> > to help making it better. >>> > >>> > And the end users in the wikis dont know where to report and follow up >>> > issues. (Not everyone is aware of and familiar with the Bugzilla >>> process). >>> > The request we raised to have a visible bug reporting link has not been >>> > acted upon [11]. There might be a lot of issues going unreported, >>> > because >>> > people dont know whom to report to. When a change of this scale is >>> > being >>> > done, Community admins must be advised to run Sitenotice campaigns to >>> > inform the users about the change with some solid newbie oriented >>> > documentation. Infact this must be done for RFC itself, so as to make >>> > an >>> > informed decision. We did the same for RFC in Tamil[12]. >>> > >>> > *Proposal for Future i18n / any special deployments to Indic >>> wikiprojects*:- >>> > >>> > The WebFonts deployment is a classic example of making deployment >>> > without >>> > enough community engagement. Can this done in any of English / German / >>> > Russian wikipedia which have a strong community? The fact that Tamil / >>> > Malayalam resisted was because the community had concerns over the >>> > solution. Till an hour before deployment yesterday, we did not know if >>> > Ta >>> > wiki projects will get webfonts despite our objections. We had been >>> > pursuing Siebrand and Gerard across forums - facebook, twitter, meta >>> > talk >>> > pages, village pumps, gmail chat etc looking for answers. But till the >>> > deployment happened, we had no clue what we would be getting. This >>> > method >>> > of deploying in silence *must* stop ASAP. Any deployment to any Indic >>> wiki >>> > must go through the community (language support teams) informed of the >>> > change with Indic Consultant kept in loop. We suggest Shiju Alex to >>> > work >>> on >>> > a policy and put it in place regarding this. If there is problem >>> > identifying community members to help, we are sure Shiju will help >>> > connecting. >>> > >>> > Irrespective of that happening Tamil Wiki Projects will follow this >>> process. >>> > >>> > 1. Test any deployment on translatewiki >>> > 2. File Bugs and verify in translatewiki till it reaches acceptable >>> level. >>> > 3. Language support team member will make a RFC page explaining the >>> merits >>> > / demerits of the technology in simple terms with use of screenshots / >>> > external links >>> > 4. Reverify / Ask for deployment in largely-inactive Wikiprojects like >>> > WikiQuote / WikiBooks *post community concensus* >>> > 5. Test again / File Bugs >>> > 6. Reverify / Ask for deployment Wikiprojects next in line in terms of >>> > activity ( Wiktionary / Wikinews/ Wikisource) >>> > 7. Test again / File Bugs >>> > 8. Only after ironing out all issues, any deployment will be allowed in >>> > Tamil Wikipedia. >>> > >>> > We had burnt our fingers during Narayam deployment already once and >>> > community was so resistive of Narayam itself and was asking to go back >>> > to >>> > older javascript solution. After that we followed the above process for >>> > bringing back Narayam on all Tamil Wikiprojects. >>> > >>> > We suggest the other communities adopt something similar. We sincerely >>> hope >>> > that the community engagement is improved, not just before deployment, >>> even >>> > from start of development. >>> > >>> > [0] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/12/12/going-live-december-12-2011/ >>> > [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30506 >>> > [2] http://www.alexa.com/topsites/category/Top/World/Tamil >>> > [3] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/WebFonts_assessment >>> > [4] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Sodabottle/test1 >>> > [5] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32775 >>> > [6] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33024 >>> > [7] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33025 >>> > [8] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33018 >>> > [9] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33027 >>> > [10] >>> > >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html >>> > [11] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32942 >>> > [12] http://tawp.in/r/2r1f >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Regards >>> > Bala Jeyaraman & Srikanth.L >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Srikanth Ramakrishnan. >>> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. >>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >> > > > -- > Pradeep Mohandas > How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l