I will agree that Trango prices are lower then Moto Canopy. The 900mhz
can come with integrated or connectorized for different prices but they
are more expensive then what I listed. I just wanted to show that the
difference in pricing is not a world of difference that Alvarion. You
have to take the feature set and decide if the added features make them
worth the cost. I looked at Trango and even visited a network utilizing
them for BH for their wi-fi network. Canopy's C/I is what sold me on
the product.
Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
Travis Johnson wrote:
Trango offers many different CPE (5830, Fox, Fox Atlas, etc.). They
have listed on their website the Fox Atlas CPE for $149 for a 30 pack
pricing. This is a 10Mbps radio and with a $30 dish will reach up to
10 miles.
I currently have a 22 mile 900mhz link with Trango (using an omni on
the AP) and a 30.1 mile link with 2.4ghz Trango (also using an omni).
The quantity discount pricing you have listed is very close to
Trango's pricing on the 900mhz and 2.4ghz units... except Trango
already has a dual polarity antenna AND an external antenna connector
as part of that price. How much does the price go up on the Canopy
(Cyclone?) to get the connector? Are your guys having to haul two
different radios for each frequency just in case?
Travis
Microserv
Anthony Will wrote:
Your numbers are a bit off on the canopy and when i looked on the
trango site it looks more in the range of $400 per unit at 30 pack
pricing for trango's. I believe your getting that price but at what
qualities?
I have a couple hundred in the air and I have Midwest Wireless the
5th largest WISP in the country playing in my back yard using
Alvarions junk BA2 system all over the place. And I also have a
local ILEC, Stonebridge and the remains of Xtratyme all over the rest
of my coverage area. My PtmP system is all 900mhz and 2.4 ghz using
omni's and I dont have any issues with interference. The longest
customer link I have on 900mhz is 18.5 miles and the longest 2.4 link
is 12 miles. I use omni's so that I dont completely destroy the
airwaves for others that are playing in the same sand box.
Canopy pricing:
AP = $898 (Advantage $1554) Single pricing
CPE = $267 (Advantage $402 ) 25pack pricing Add $40 a unit for 15
mile range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
CPE = $216 (Advantage $324) 100 pack pricing Add $25 a unit for 15
mile range (stinger or beehive dish all FCC certified)
Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
Travis Johnson wrote:
Hi,
I changed the subject line to reflect more the direction of this
discussion (Trango vs. Canopy vs. Alvarion)... ;)
This is just off the top of my head, and I would love to see more
data on any of these radios:
Trango 5830AP - $1,079 retail
Dual polarity
10Mbps (auto up/down ratio)
Easy management (CLI and web)
$149 CPE ($199 up to 10 miles)
Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974)
C/I advantage
Fixed up/down ratio
$490 CPE ($737 advantage)
Alvarion VL AP - $4,500 (rough retail)
36Mbps and 40,000pps
$1,000 CPE
For whatever it's worth, we have over 2,500 CPE in the air and over
2,000 are Trango (900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz). The Trango product has
worked very well for us, and we are located on some mountaintop
repeater locations that literally have over 100 antennas (paging,
HAM, WISPs, etc.) within 100 yards of each other.
Our biggest problem is frequency availability at all (regardless of
radio choice)... we have a 2.4ghz AP at a repeater station that is
"full". We attempted to install a second sector today and ran a site
survey at this location.... across the entire 2.4ghz band, the
"average" signals ranged from -25 to -55 at the best. :(
Travis
Microserv
Jon Langeler wrote:
Tom, I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you what we've not
only extensivley tested but also experienced over 6 years. We
started using canopy since it began shipping and at least 100
trango SU between 3 different towers since beta. I just hate to see
fellow wisp protest that there isn't a good product and struggle
when their actually is a pretty darn good one...and on top of that
has an upgrade path in it's vision, it keeps getting better.
ARQ does not affect C/I like FEC does for example. When you say ARQ
is fixing any resiliance problems that may be true. But you'll also
suffer from increased latency and less throughput during those
retransmissions. Not good if you want to support VOIP and keep
customers happy. Having a low C/I means the system will be stable
more often and maintain a lower retrans. Trango's ARQ is not even
an option in the 5800 model which is what you and I probably have a
decent percentage of in our Trango networks. Having a low C/I
requirement affects other things like increases the range of a
product. I'm laying out facts, you can convince yourself of
whatever you want...
Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Nice try, but I've found that comment to be not at all true. I
have often chosen to avoid canopy user's channels, but because I
am a good WISP neighbor, not because I had to. Why fight if you
can cooperate. On a SPEC sheet Canopy does boast the lowest C/I.
But Trango's specified C/I was reported before considering ARQ.
And Trango has always underspec'd their spec sheets. C/I is not
nearly as relevant as SNR resilience anyway. With Arq, we've
easilly ran links as low as 4 db above the average noise floor,
reliably. There is VERY little difference between the Trango and
Canopy C/I in real world usage. The Trango just adds more
polarities as more options to work around it, when needed. One of
the reasons we like Trango is its resilience to noise, that gives
us the abilty to fight it out and stand our ground. The Foxes w/
DISH, have excellent ARQ and resilience to Noise, within their
range and LOS.
When we start to have trouble with Trango, is when we start to
push the limits of the technology. Its a LOS technology that we
attempt NLOS with. My arguement is also not that we can't be the
last man standing. Its that when the battle happens the customer
sees it, and the customer does not tolerate it. IF a Canopy and
Trango went to war, one might survive a little better than the
other, but ultimately both customers would feel the interference
the majority of the time.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
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