I'm all about business, that's why in this case the technology actually
affects the business case dramatically. For example, of all the products
we've deployed(MANY including Alvarion), canopy and the WCDMA solutions
we've worked with are the only ones I would have been confortable with
outsourcing installations.
For me to take that worth a grain of salt, can you name a handful of
tier 1 or 2 operators deploying anything in the 5GHz bands?
We've had no problems with capacity using canopy(900Mhz aside), and
scaling has been absolutely no problem. Interference and lack of excess
5GHz used to be a problem before using canopy.
I will definately agree that Canopy has some work to do in the VOIP
and/or pps department. It's weakness. But it sounds like they will be
improving that in the upcoming 8.2(?) release...
Thanks
Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.
Patrick Leary wrote:
Sigh. Jon, I'm really not sure why you beat that drum when examples
exist all around that show it is not true. In fact, no tier 1 or 2
operator that deploys in the 5GHz unlicensed bands (i.e. operators that
tend to do lengthy trials, comparisons) that I know of has fallen for
that argument either, at least not for long. Many WISPs also know
better. It is only a few Canopy-based WISPs who continue to believe that
GPS is required in the UL bands. Could it be because they have to use it
to get Canopy to scale so they can't imagine how other systems could
scale well without it?
As for the non-engineer part, it seems Jon that you'd benefit from some
wider non-technical thinking. What about the business? Here are some
BUSINESS-minded things to think about:
- What about an operator that does not want to be stranded by being
limited in their service offering, such as one that would like to do
scaled VoIP? BreezeACCESS VL can scale VoIP very well where other
systems struggle with only minimal users. Canopy Advantage's VoIP
scaling abilities are there for all to see in Motorola's own white paper
-- 26-28 simultaneous calls per AP only, and that's with a 50%
uplink/downlink configuration. VL can do 10x that and that all equates
to revenue potential.
- What about the LOS-limited coverage of Canopy that might require 2 or
more times the towers to get the same coverage as one cell of VL? Even
cell for cell, CAPEX is now similar between brands, but VL produces
about 2x the geographic coverage. Canopy requires more cells (i.e.
higher OPEX due to more cell leases and more sectors to maintain) and
needs more premium sites.
- And that's not counting the customer accessibility -- even within the
exact same geography, VL can "see" many more of the potential customers
than can Canopy.
- And what about cell capacity? Using the same channel sizes, Canopy
needs 2x the sectors to get still 15% less than VL?
- And what about subscriber capacity? Anyone in the cell that wants more
than 14mbps is totally out of the revenue picture and business model --
even with a Canopy ptp. BreezeACCESS VL pmp can connect 15mbps, 20mbps,
25mbps and even higher speed demanding customers.
- And for sure now even the cost equation is now equal or better for VL
than Canopy both per cell and per CPE since the advent of the
AlvarionCOMNET program for WISPs.
If you analyze completely today, you may find that Canopy's GPS ability
is the only thing left that can even be spun as being an advantage over
BreezeACCESS VL since we have come out with v.4.0 and the AlvarionCOMNET
program. And when you realize that Canopy needs 2x sectors PER cell (to
get the same capacity) and about 2x cells PER geography (to achieve the
same coverage) -- it becomes pretty clear why Canopy must have GPS.
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived
Marlon, if that's the type of product your looking for, I'll save you
the hassle of looking (and you can come back to this post in 5-10 years
to make your conclusions on my recommendation) because your best best is
to go with canopy or wait until a 5GHz 802.16e solution comes out(not
likely soon). If Alvarion would get an actual ENGINEER to debate about
their RF technology compared to others on-list, that would be the day
:-)
Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
Got it. Thanks.
I guess my "beef" comes from being a wifi based wisp. I find it too
difficult to reject interference with a csma based product. Anything
with a "wait for clear air, then transmit" MAC is GREAT for
collocation. But sucks when there are products around that don't
follow that mechanism. That's (my personal belief) why Canopy went
with it's GPS sync. It doesn't care who's already out there, when
it's time to transmit it does. Trango does that to, just without
sync'ing the AP's.
My REAL world experience so far is that csmak (or csma/ca, or whatever
collision avoidance scheme you want to use) is GREAT where there
aren't many other systems within ear shot of the radios. However,
when there are other devices in the area, especially those that don't
have a collision avoidance mechanism, the csma radio will pay a heavy
price in performance.
Having used both csma and polling products, I'm not putting in any
wifi type products at 5 gig. All of our next gen products will be
polling as long as we can keep things that way.
These days, I'm learning to sacrifice raw performance for reliability
and uptime. There's a balance, sure, but getting that last 10 to 20%
out of a product is less important to me than having a product that
can survive some of the games that my less scrupulous competitors
play.
However, with EITHER technology choice, it's critical to design a
network that can, and does, physically (antenna choice and ap
locations) isolates your system as well as you possibly can. That
seems to be the type of trick that just can't be taught. Your network
designer either gets it or he doesn't. Heck, I've even done
consulting gigs where I looked a guy right in the eye and gave them
several choices for site locations. Only to have them pick something
completely different, and sometimes unworkable.
80 to 90% of people's problems with wireless are self inflicted.
Either outright or in a lack of forethought manner.
Here's an idea for you Patrick. Make this product work both ways.
Give it the option to be either csma or some fancy new version of
token ring. Then we could optimize performance for any environment
that we find ourselves in.
Oh yeah, I remember the big hubbub about GPS in the BreezeACCESS II
line. Why was it important for collocation then but not now?
Hope you guys all had a great Christmas!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own
wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
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