We sell up to 8Mbps on Canopy advantage without issues. Nearly all our customers are within a couple miles though and as long as they have less than a -76, they get full speed. Rarely do we have two customers doing full speed at the same time on the same sector. (Most we have on a sector is 50) Maybe we are luckier than most The main problem on Advantage (as well as other systems) is upload. However, Canopy QoS is good and even saturated links don't affect VoIP quality. We sell a small business 8/2 package and when you see one of them soaking upload for long periods and a couple customers running outbound P2P, you start to worry a little but we haven't had any complaints due to capacity.
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Chuck, > > Not to rain on your parade but... I'm a little confused on how 10.2 mbps is > possible w/ Canopy. Advantage series peak capacity is just for short range > customers, and a large percentage of the capacity can be voided by by the > farther out slower non-advantage CPEs. When Up/down rate ratios have to be > pre-fined (for syncing) that limits the radio from using the ful capacity > of > the Radio. Its one of the big reasons that we chose Trango 8 years ago > originally, so that it was infact possible to get full radio speed in one > direction when it was available in low usage time, so we could quote > higher > speeds to business symetrical customers. > > Sure, if we consider 14mb real world advantage best case for Advantage > series, use all advantage series CPE, and do a 70 / 30 download to upload, > sure 10mbps peak downloads are possible for a single client, in that > scenario. Provided that the WISP was fine with all other customers being > 100% STARVED at the time the one customer was monopolizing the peak > capacity. > We tried that once, and it was a big mistake because it caused latency to > sky rocket for all the other customers when they first attempted to use > capacity, and the feel of the circuit because very bursty feeling. The > short > pauses made it feel like something was wrong with the circuit. TCP could > not > deal with it properly, it needs time to tune. Because of TCP's reaction, > it > actually translated to a slower experience than if we just gave customers > half the speed. So.... My Points is.... > > Your concept of bursting a HIGH capacity for short periods is a sound > concept, provided that you never let one cusomer have ALL your bandwdith. > Headroom is needed. We found that if we let our customers burst to half the > radio full capacity, we could use the same technique sucessfully because > all > the other subs were NEVER starved from bandwidth. > > We tried pushing the limits, such as allowing 7-8mb out of the 10mb, but > it > was to risky to do that because there were times when the full 10mbps was > not achieve, such as when link quality degraded and retransmission occured > do to RF packetloss, or when small packets were being used instead of pull > packet size. Customers would suffer with the effects of non bandwdith > shaping. > There was also some issues with how well bandwdith shaping worked on Intel > systems at 10mbps, as 10mbps speeds is about the peak speed before it > exceed > Intel's interupt clock limits of 100 ticks per second, nor was common Fair > Weighted Queuing method able to be operation simultanoeus to trying to be > used with Burst bucket type queuing. (Unless you aren't using Intel) > > So if we have a 10mbps HDX radio, we would sell peak 5 mbps services, and > this would allow us to deliver good non-bursty performance without delays, > and let us acheive high over subscription rates. And if we had a FDX > imulated radio, that downloaded at 10mbps, again 5mbps would be the peak > speed we allowed in our bursting. > > To keep it Real, With Canopy Advantage series, I'd highly recommend to > WISPs > that they do not commit to offer peak speeds above 5mbps per customer. It > can result in severe degration at some customers sites that could be going > on, and the WISP never really know it if they weren't sitting in front of > the end user computers experiencing exactly what the end user was > experienceing. And if you don't believe me, and want to push the limits, > maybe 7mbps, but anything above that... its getting risky. > > That is provided that you'd be advertising Real Transfer Speed, instead of > gross over the air speed. There have been some WISP that have quoted > "11mbps" for 2.4Ghz DSSS wifi systems that could only pass 3mbps, because > they quoted Hardware gross specs and not real throughput. But in todays > world, that is gettign harder and harder to do, with the many online speed > test sites that are becoming common practice for end users to use to test > their speeds. Its darn near impossible to get a full 10mbps speed test > result from these test sites over a wireless nework, and much easier to > achieve a 5mbps test, do to the distance, windowsize, latency variables > that > can effect TCP's real world throughput. (For example, 64k windowsize at > 80ms, will only allow about a 3mbps transfer to occur). > > Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing Canopy... We have actually started > to use some Canopy Advantage series on our shorter range sectors, where > verticle pol was free. (because we can find them on EBAY cheap, with all > the > Muni projects going south). I'm actually very impressed with their speed > and quality of RF. But I'm just sharing what we've learned with Bandwidth > management, since we've been doing it since 2001. > > Maybe the Canopy 400series, can deliver the higher throughputs ? I heard > Motorolla was planning on making a 5.8G model of teh 400 series? > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > Our Canopy customers are used to getting 10.2 Mbps download speed. If > the > > start a huge file transfer they get wide open throttle for a while (that > > while depends on their rate plan) then they get throttled until that > > particular file transfer is over. Once they stop, wide open throttle > > again. They love it. The power users call in and upgrade their rate > plan > > all the time. Excellent up sell opportunities with zero effort. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Travis Johnson > > To: WISPA General List > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > > > How does Canopy fix a customer satisfaction problem? If they are used to > > getting 5Mbps download speed and you have to cap them at 1Mbps, it > doesn't > > really matter what platform you are using. > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: > > Canopy... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:59 AM > > Subject: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > > > Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth > that > > you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And > > what > > do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down > > speed. > > (they don't know your throttling them though) > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > > WAVELINC > > P.O. Box 126 > > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > > 419-562-6405 > > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
