It appears that Canopy has stepped up its game with their more recent models. Thats good to hear.
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > Tom, those speeds are possible with non-advantage P10 hardware. Version 9 > of the software gives you 6800 pps too on P10 hardware. > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Josh Luthman > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Rick, >> >> When you reference Trango are you referring to the Access 5800 series? >> >> >> >> >> On 11/1/08, RickG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I agree with Tom. I tried Canopy but didnt like this aspect of it. So, >> > I continued using Trango and love them! -RickG >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > wrote: >> >> Chuck, >> >> >> >> Not to rain on your parade but... I'm a little confused on how 10.2 >> >> mbps >> >> is >> >> possible w/ Canopy. Advantage series peak capacity is just for short >> range >> >> customers, and a large percentage of the capacity can be voided by by >> the >> >> farther out slower non-advantage CPEs. When Up/down rate ratios have >> >> to >> be >> >> pre-fined (for syncing) that limits the radio from using the ful >> capacity >> >> of >> >> the Radio. Its one of the big reasons that we chose Trango 8 years >> >> ago >> >> originally, so that it was infact possible to get full radio speed in >> one >> >> direction when it was available in low usage time, so we could quote >> >> higher >> >> speeds to business symetrical customers. >> >> >> >> Sure, if we consider 14mb real world advantage best case for Advantage >> >> series, use all advantage series CPE, and do a 70 / 30 download to >> upload, >> >> sure 10mbps peak downloads are possible for a single client, in that >> >> scenario. Provided that the WISP was fine with all other customers >> being >> >> 100% STARVED at the time the one customer was monopolizing the peak >> >> capacity. >> >> We tried that once, and it was a big mistake because it caused latency >> to >> >> sky rocket for all the other customers when they first attempted to >> >> use >> >> capacity, and the feel of the circuit because very bursty feeling. The >> >> short >> >> pauses made it feel like something was wrong with the circuit. TCP >> >> could >> >> not >> >> deal with it properly, it needs time to tune. Because of TCP's >> reaction, >> >> it >> >> actually translated to a slower experience than if we just gave >> customers >> >> half the speed. So.... My Points is.... >> >> >> >> Your concept of bursting a HIGH capacity for short periods is a sound >> >> concept, provided that you never let one cusomer have ALL your >> bandwdith. >> >> Headroom is needed. We found that if we let our customers burst to >> >> half >> >> the >> >> radio full capacity, we could use the same technique sucessfully >> >> because >> >> all >> >> the other subs were NEVER starved from bandwidth. >> >> >> >> We tried pushing the limits, such as allowing 7-8mb out of the 10mb, >> but >> >> it >> >> was to risky to do that because there were times when the full 10mbps >> was >> >> not achieve, such as when link quality degraded and retransmission >> occured >> >> do to RF packetloss, or when small packets were being used instead of >> pull >> >> packet size. Customers would suffer with the effects of non bandwdith >> >> shaping. >> >> There was also some issues with how well bandwdith shaping worked on >> Intel >> >> systems at 10mbps, as 10mbps speeds is about the peak speed before it >> >> exceed >> >> Intel's interupt clock limits of 100 ticks per second, nor was common >> Fair >> >> Weighted Queuing method able to be operation simultanoeus to trying to >> be >> >> used with Burst bucket type queuing. (Unless you aren't using Intel) >> >> >> >> So if we have a 10mbps HDX radio, we would sell peak 5 mbps services, >> and >> >> this would allow us to deliver good non-bursty performance without >> delays, >> >> and let us acheive high over subscription rates. And if we had a FDX >> >> imulated radio, that downloaded at 10mbps, again 5mbps would be the >> >> peak >> >> speed we allowed in our bursting. >> >> >> >> To keep it Real, With Canopy Advantage series, I'd highly recommend to >> >> WISPs >> >> that they do not commit to offer peak speeds above 5mbps per customer. >> It >> >> can result in severe degration at some customers sites that could be >> going >> >> on, and the WISP never really know it if they weren't sitting in front >> of >> >> the end user computers experiencing exactly what the end user was >> >> experienceing. And if you don't believe me, and want to push the >> limits, >> >> maybe 7mbps, but anything above that... its getting risky. >> >> >> >> That is provided that you'd be advertising Real Transfer Speed, >> >> instead >> of >> >> gross over the air speed. There have been some WISP that have quoted >> >> "11mbps" for 2.4Ghz DSSS wifi systems that could only pass 3mbps, >> because >> >> they quoted Hardware gross specs and not real throughput. But in >> >> todays >> >> world, that is gettign harder and harder to do, with the many online >> speed >> >> test sites that are becoming common practice for end users to use to >> test >> >> their speeds. Its darn near impossible to get a full 10mbps speed >> >> test >> >> result from these test sites over a wireless nework, and much easier >> >> to >> >> achieve a 5mbps test, do to the distance, windowsize, latency >> >> variables >> >> that >> >> can effect TCP's real world throughput. (For example, 64k windowsize >> >> at >> >> 80ms, will only allow about a 3mbps transfer to occur). >> >> >> >> Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing Canopy... We have actually >> started >> >> to use some Canopy Advantage series on our shorter range sectors, >> >> where >> >> verticle pol was free. (because we can find them on EBAY cheap, with >> >> all >> >> the >> >> Muni projects going south). I'm actually very impressed with their >> speed >> >> and quality of RF. But I'm just sharing what we've learned with >> Bandwidth >> >> management, since we've been doing it since 2001. >> >> >> >> Maybe the Canopy 400series, can deliver the higher throughputs ? I >> heard >> >> Motorolla was planning on making a 5.8G model of teh 400 series? >> >> >> >> Tom DeReggi >> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:09 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >> >> >> >> >>> Our Canopy customers are used to getting 10.2 Mbps download speed. >> >>> If >> >>> the >> >>> start a huge file transfer they get wide open throttle for a while >> (that >> >>> while depends on their rate plan) then they get throttled until that >> >>> particular file transfer is over. Once they stop, wide open throttle >> >>> again. They love it. The power users call in and upgrade their rate >> >>> plan >> >>> all the time. Excellent up sell opportunities with zero effort. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: Travis Johnson >> >>> To: WISPA General List >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:30 AM >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> How does Canopy fix a customer satisfaction problem? If they are >> >>> used >> to >> >>> getting 5Mbps download speed and you have to cap them at 1Mbps, it >> >>> doesn't >> >>> really matter what platform you are using. >> >>> >> >>> Travis >> >>> Microserv >> >>> >> >>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >> >>> Canopy... >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:59 AM >> >>> Subject: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth >> >>> that >> >>> you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. >> >>> And >> >>> what >> >>> do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down >> >>> speed. >> >>> (they don't know your throttling them though) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Kurt Fankhauser >> >>> WAVELINC >> >>> P.O. Box 126 >> >>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >> >>> 419-562-6405 >> >>> www.wavelinc.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >>> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >>> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> WISPA Wants You! 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