I agree with Tom. I tried Canopy but didnt like this aspect of it. So, I continued using Trango and love them! -RickG
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chuck, > > Not to rain on your parade but... I'm a little confused on how 10.2 mbps is > possible w/ Canopy. Advantage series peak capacity is just for short range > customers, and a large percentage of the capacity can be voided by by the > farther out slower non-advantage CPEs. When Up/down rate ratios have to be > pre-fined (for syncing) that limits the radio from using the ful capacity of > the Radio. Its one of the big reasons that we chose Trango 8 years ago > originally, so that it was infact possible to get full radio speed in one > direction when it was available in low usage time, so we could quote higher > speeds to business symetrical customers. > > Sure, if we consider 14mb real world advantage best case for Advantage > series, use all advantage series CPE, and do a 70 / 30 download to upload, > sure 10mbps peak downloads are possible for a single client, in that > scenario. Provided that the WISP was fine with all other customers being > 100% STARVED at the time the one customer was monopolizing the peak > capacity. > We tried that once, and it was a big mistake because it caused latency to > sky rocket for all the other customers when they first attempted to use > capacity, and the feel of the circuit because very bursty feeling. The short > pauses made it feel like something was wrong with the circuit. TCP could not > deal with it properly, it needs time to tune. Because of TCP's reaction, it > actually translated to a slower experience than if we just gave customers > half the speed. So.... My Points is.... > > Your concept of bursting a HIGH capacity for short periods is a sound > concept, provided that you never let one cusomer have ALL your bandwdith. > Headroom is needed. We found that if we let our customers burst to half the > radio full capacity, we could use the same technique sucessfully because all > the other subs were NEVER starved from bandwidth. > > We tried pushing the limits, such as allowing 7-8mb out of the 10mb, but it > was to risky to do that because there were times when the full 10mbps was > not achieve, such as when link quality degraded and retransmission occured > do to RF packetloss, or when small packets were being used instead of pull > packet size. Customers would suffer with the effects of non bandwdith > shaping. > There was also some issues with how well bandwdith shaping worked on Intel > systems at 10mbps, as 10mbps speeds is about the peak speed before it exceed > Intel's interupt clock limits of 100 ticks per second, nor was common Fair > Weighted Queuing method able to be operation simultanoeus to trying to be > used with Burst bucket type queuing. (Unless you aren't using Intel) > > So if we have a 10mbps HDX radio, we would sell peak 5 mbps services, and > this would allow us to deliver good non-bursty performance without delays, > and let us acheive high over subscription rates. And if we had a FDX > imulated radio, that downloaded at 10mbps, again 5mbps would be the peak > speed we allowed in our bursting. > > To keep it Real, With Canopy Advantage series, I'd highly recommend to WISPs > that they do not commit to offer peak speeds above 5mbps per customer. It > can result in severe degration at some customers sites that could be going > on, and the WISP never really know it if they weren't sitting in front of > the end user computers experiencing exactly what the end user was > experienceing. And if you don't believe me, and want to push the limits, > maybe 7mbps, but anything above that... its getting risky. > > That is provided that you'd be advertising Real Transfer Speed, instead of > gross over the air speed. There have been some WISP that have quoted > "11mbps" for 2.4Ghz DSSS wifi systems that could only pass 3mbps, because > they quoted Hardware gross specs and not real throughput. But in todays > world, that is gettign harder and harder to do, with the many online speed > test sites that are becoming common practice for end users to use to test > their speeds. Its darn near impossible to get a full 10mbps speed test > result from these test sites over a wireless nework, and much easier to > achieve a 5mbps test, do to the distance, windowsize, latency variables that > can effect TCP's real world throughput. (For example, 64k windowsize at > 80ms, will only allow about a 3mbps transfer to occur). > > Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing Canopy... We have actually started > to use some Canopy Advantage series on our shorter range sectors, where > verticle pol was free. (because we can find them on EBAY cheap, with all the > Muni projects going south). I'm actually very impressed with their speed > and quality of RF. But I'm just sharing what we've learned with Bandwidth > management, since we've been doing it since 2001. > > Maybe the Canopy 400series, can deliver the higher throughputs ? I heard > Motorolla was planning on making a 5.8G model of teh 400 series? > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > >> Our Canopy customers are used to getting 10.2 Mbps download speed. If the >> start a huge file transfer they get wide open throttle for a while (that >> while depends on their rate plan) then they get throttled until that >> particular file transfer is over. Once they stop, wide open throttle >> again. They love it. The power users call in and upgrade their rate plan >> all the time. Excellent up sell opportunities with zero effort. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Travis Johnson >> To: WISPA General List >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:30 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >> >> How does Canopy fix a customer satisfaction problem? If they are used to >> getting 5Mbps download speed and you have to cap them at 1Mbps, it doesn't >> really matter what platform you are using. >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >> Canopy... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:59 AM >> Subject: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >> >> Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that >> you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And >> what >> do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down >> speed. >> (they don't know your throttling them though) >> >> >> >> Kurt Fankhauser >> WAVELINC >> P.O. Box 126 >> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >> 419-562-6405 >> www.wavelinc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! 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