It'd probably be easier to use BGP to determine their IP blocks, since they 
could be all over Limelight's network.


-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:37 PM
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
<wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article)

> I'm not sure this fixes anything either. Even if you cap people at
> 1Mbps, if they are watching a movie, they are using that 1Mbps for 2
> hours constant. My cost on that 1Mbps is $40, the same price I am
> selling the service to them for... yet I have all the overhead and
> expenses to keep it running.
>
> I may have to buy a Netflix box or an Xbox-360 just to see what IP
> blocks these devices are pulling from, then I will just start throttling
> the entire netblock to each service... rather than trying to control
> each customer. Allocate 5Mbps to all of Netflix's IP's on my network...
> then if people want to get better streaming service, they can pay me to
> un-throttle their connection. ;)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Brian Webster wrote:
>> I like the idea Chuck and others have used in regards to shaping. Give 
>> them
>> a wide open connection for a short burst of time and then throttle them 
>> back
>> to what they are paying for (say a minute or so). This will give them
>> awesome performance for things like web pages and speed tests and most
>> email, yet when they decide to be hogs using technology that is a 
>> constant
>> demand on the connection, it won't cripple your network. This in 
>> conjunction
>> with bandwidth caps should keep you solvent until the backhaul
>> infrastructure in the US gets more robust, more accessible, and cheaper.
>> Until then you just need to tell the clients the basic economic truth of 
>> how
>> much constant internet really costs. Comcast and others are starting to 
>> bit
>> cap their services so they must be seeing the same things you are. Show 
>> the
>> customers your bill for your backhaul and ask them if they would like to 
>> pay
>> that each month. Even those on FIOS and other Fiber technologies see 
>> those
>> realities once their internet destination goes outside the private fiber
>> circuits. FIOS may be fast but it sure exposes the sites and locations 
>> that
>> don't have huge pipes serving them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>   -----Original Message-----
>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>   Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:15 PM
>>   To: WISPA General List
>>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article)
>>
>>
>>   Rick,
>>
>>   Just for what it's worth, we are seeing an increase in overall usage as
>> well. We have been in the ISP business since 1994. It was only about a 
>> year
>> ago that we went over 100Mbps of incoming traffic during peak time... and
>> just today, we peaked at 176Mbps. So in a year's time we increased by 75%
>> the amount of bandwidth usage by our customers. Of course we added new
>> customers, etc. but that was at the same rate we have been adding 
>> customers
>> for 5+ years.
>>
>>   Solution? There isn't a good one. I remember people saying things like 
>> "I
>> just leave my customers wide open because then they will use what they 
>> need
>> and then get off, so they are online less" and stuff like that. Those 
>> days
>> are long gone. If you give people a 5Mbps connection, they will use 
>> 5Mbps.
>> And now, rather than just doing what they were doing, they will just 
>> start
>> more downloads or movies or TV because they can.
>>
>>   Travis
>>   Microserv
>>
>>   RickG wrote:
>> I have WRAP boards on all towers that provide limited bandwidth
>> shaping. I just recently installed a Mikrotik firewall (and love it).
>> It's shaping and rules cover all customers. As far as bandwidth hits,
>> the previous owner oversold and overmarketed the amount of bandwidth
>> in order to gain subscribers (i.e. premium 3Mbps accounts when he only
>> had 3Mbps). Since bandwidth is very expensive and difficult to get
>> here, this has led to a sluggish network that I am having difficulty
>> resolving. Therefore, the customers have been complaining. The good
>> news is that after getting very creative, I have overturned some new
>> options but the cost is still a strain on the budget. My biggest
>> frustration is the never ending question: What will it take? It
>> appears that more and more people want constant multi-megabit speeds
>> on demand for less than $50/month. The oversubscription rate on a
>> $600/month T1 no longer provides for a valid business model. Heck, my
>> $500/month 5Mbps connection form Time Warner became quickly saturated
>> once I put it in. I expect my new 11Mbps connection for $600 will do
>> the same. The interesting part is that I continue to get pressure for
>> faster speed plans therefore pressure to make the same mistake my
>> predecessor made - offer plans with speeds that max out my capacity.
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Steve Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>   Rick, (everyone)
>>
>> So from that statement it appears that you are not using any bandwidth
>> limiting ore shaping at your AP or NOC.
>> Question 1. Is that for all Client levels or just your premium service.
>> Question 2. If you don't manage limits, was that always how you've
>> always done it? If not what made you decide to do it this way and what
>> kind of upstream hit did you take.
>>
>> I am considering giving more speed but I am concerned about the
>> additional cost to me for abusers.
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:04 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>>
>> Every SHOULD know that most connections are "shared bandwidth". The
>> keyword is SHOULD. But, peole only hear what they want to and everyone
>> I talk to that isnt a techie thinks they get the speed they bought for
>> $50 or less all the time! The marketing gurus have screwed up again
>> just like the "unlimited use" policy fiasco. So, I always try to
>> educate my users but they percieve this as my issue and that my
>> service is inferiro with cable or dsl. Of course, thats what feeds the
>> marketing hype with the speed in the first place. So, what to do?
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>     Dear Mike,
>>
>> You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can
>>       deliver
>>     "x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location 
>> does
>> not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all
>> the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between
>>       all
>>     of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those
>> end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus
>> they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their
>>       customers.
>>     WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and
>> give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up
>> here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to
>>       do
>>     with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to
>> understand the true limits of their system.
>>
>> Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery
>> takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only
>> carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many
>> time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why
>> throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same
>> time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP
>> throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver
>>       max
>>     throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is
>> heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput
>> simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not
>> everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high
>> throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting.
>>
>> Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real
>> technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to
>> succeed and survive.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>       I didn't get that at all.
>>
>> It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster
>>         than 2 megabits, they get beat up.  Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was
>> outdated
>> long ago.
>>     -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Jack Unger
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>>
>>
>> So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY
>>         from the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can 
>> serve
>> all
>> of them 26 Mb simultaneously.
>>     Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home.  Each
>>         tower has a
>>     Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs).
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it,
>>         poorly.
>>     --- Henry Spencer
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>   Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs...
>>
>> The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs.  Real bandwidth
>>         tests
>>     show 26 megs.
>>
>>
>>  So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb
>> between all of your customers on that one access point?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it,
>>         poorly.
>>     --- Henry Spencer
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>         <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>  And which telco is this going to bail out?    Money from Congress to
>> industry = pay off Unions for votes.
>>
>> We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify.
>>
>> Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as
>>         over
>>     10 Meg.
>>
>> Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> <insert witty tagline here>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>         <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>     To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Jeff,
>>
>> Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating
>>         in
>>      the
>>
>>
>>  events below.  WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to
>>         Action
>>      to
>>
>>
>>  define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy.  It was great to see all
>>         the
>>     players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to
>>         bring
>>      the
>>
>>
>>  US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder.  It will be a
>>         busy
>>     three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the
>>         Obama
>>     Administration.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>         <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On
>>     Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] Article
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR20
>> 0812
>> 0203
>>      164_pf.html
>>
>> New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy
>>
>> By Cecilia Kang
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03
>>
>> President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed
>> Internet
>> service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic
>>         growth
>>      and
>>
>>
>>  spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and
>> telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups
>> frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next
>>         president
>>     with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals.
>>
>> That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and
>> public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in
>>         upgrading
>>      and
>>
>>
>>  building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T
>>         and
>>     public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on
>> broadband
>> policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed
>> coalition.
>>
>> The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by
>>         the
>>     group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet
>>         access
>>      to
>>
>>
>>  every consumer.
>>
>> Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on
>>         whether
>>      the
>>
>>
>>  government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can
>>         hold, the
>>     use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net
>> neutrality --
>> the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking
>>         or
>>     slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to
>>         move
>>     beyond their differences.
>>
>> "The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we
>>
>>
>>  have
>>
>>
>>  a
>> broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two
>>         years
>>     ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of
>>         the
>>     group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy
>>         solutions
>>     that will require difficult choices."
>>
>> At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and
>> economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the
>>         top
>>     10
>> nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several
>>         years.
>>     The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide access
>>         to
>>     high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with
>>         electricity,
>>     roads and phone service.
>>
>> Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and
>> received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social
>> networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect
>> citizens
>> to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to
>> technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet.
>>
>> So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors
>>         Obama's
>>     plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts said.
>>
>> Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the
>>         union
>>     supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to
>>         increase
>>     definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by
>>
>>
>>  2010.
>>
>>
>>  The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is
>>         768
>>     kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many
>>
>>
>>  other
>>
>>
>>  nations.
>>
>> Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would
>>         be
>>     expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the
>>         coalition
>>     could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher speeds
>> through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause
>> further
>> disagreement among members, Scott said.
>>
>> Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal
>>         economic
>>     stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House
>> Speaker
>> Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea.
>>
>> AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to
>>         the
>>     view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be open
>>         for
>>     all users without discrimination of technology and content on their
>> network.
>> But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or
>>         rules
>>     on
>> net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are
>> sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case
>>         basis.
>>     "There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very
>>         tough
>>      and
>>
>>
>>  there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many
>>         issues,"
>>     said
>> Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But
>>
>>
>>  both
>>
>>
>>  sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much
>>         they
>>     share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework for
>> looking at this issue."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> Sales Manager, ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106     (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> +1 574-935-8488       (Fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
>> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
>> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile
>>         <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
>>     Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>>         --
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
>> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
>> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile
>>       <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
>>     Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
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