OK, we'll give you JAB, as one of the largest WISPs that uses Canopy. However, it should be noted there is a difference between a large wisp and a roll up. Sure if a Roll up just aquired a lot of WISPs, they are going to be a Large company of one product line. Its purely coincidental that it played out that way. Had there been a Alvarion or Trango roll up, they could easilly scale to same proportion. Its not necessarilly fair to compare a Roll up venture to original owner companies.
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > >> Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. >> >> But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics that >> back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large provider >> market. >> >> What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban >> WISPs. They use Aperto. >> What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two >> occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot of >> Alvarion later on. >> What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of >> Trango >> at one point. >> What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. >> What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he was >> mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. >> What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT >> primarilly a Canopy shop. >> >> Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve in >> compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and beyond. >> But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. >> >> You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most >> all >> of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the >> largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs to >> now >> buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting that >> Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. >> >> I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap >> frog >> game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, >> because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific application >> on >> this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well may >> bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are new >> products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 markets. >> >> And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a >> croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years later, >> my >> Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. >> >> I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had the >> reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could >> afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for >> "small >> operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering leader, >> and >> favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down the >> path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps >> capacities, >> therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into >> winning >> business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and >> doesn't >> want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left >> that >> can do it at near the same price point. >> >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >>>I guess we need to define large... :-) >>> >>> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say >>> 1000 >>> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say >>> 2006 >>> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and now >>> they >>> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. >>> >>> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I >>> for >>> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they >>> all >>> use Canopy... >>> >>> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very >>> wrong >>> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I >>> apologize!) >>> >>> Daniel White >>> 3-dB Networks >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>> >>>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >>>> >>>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may use >>>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >>>> >>>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, Alvarion, >>>> StarOS, etc. >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>> >>>> >>>> > Steve, >>>> > >>>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our >>>> > company >>>> we >>>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of >>>> > our >>>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an article >>>> here >>>> > about leasing that might change your mind. http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >>>> > >>>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it >>>> > allows >>>> you >>>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase your >>>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >>>> interest, >>>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >>>> vendor >>>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better >>>> > in >>>> the >>>> > article. >>>> > >>>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another >>>> > WISP >>>> > can >>>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is equipment >>>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >>>> 802.11a/b/g >>>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were >>>> > on >>>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. >>>> > We >>>> > had >>>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been >>>> > successful >>>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. >>>> > Our >>>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we hit >>>> the >>>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >>>> network >>>> > in >>>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that much >>>> (its >>>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to >>>> > it). >>>> So >>>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >>>> > start >>>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason. >>>> > >>>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >>>> > worth >>>> > much anymore) >>>> > >>>> > Daniel White >>>> > 3-dB Networks >>>> > >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >> On >>>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >>>> >> To: WISPA General List >>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>> >> >>>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so >>>> >> that >>>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. You >>>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the ROI >>>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease Co. >>>> >> Can you help me with that one. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >> On >>>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >>>> >> To: WISPA General List >>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >>>> install >>>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside down" >>>> >> on >>>> >> every new customer. >>>> >> >>>> >> Travis >>>> >> Microserv >>>> >> >>>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >>>> >> subscribers >>>> >> things will be a bit better. >>>> >> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >>>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >>>> >> different >>>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >>>> >> equipment >>>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >>>> >> each >>>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >>>> >> service the >>>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >>>> >> that >>>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >>>> >> towers with >>>> >> 320 clients. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >>>> >> $59.99 Pro >>>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >>>> >> off the >>>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >>>> >> on any >>>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >>>> >> Full >>>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >>>> >> of with >>>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >>>> >> achieve >>>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >>>> >> What do >>>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >>>> >> started you >>>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >>>> >> and I >>>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >>>> >> the same >>>> >> boat. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >>>> >> definition >>>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >>>> >> is not >>>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >>>> >> No >>>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >>>> >> Verizon. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve Barnes >>>> >> >>>> >> RC-WiFi.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> >> -------- >>>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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