Judging by their web site, JAB has no more than 6 customers.
Yes, that's a jab (pun intended) at their web site. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:34 PM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > OK, we'll give you JAB, as one of the largest WISPs that uses Canopy. > > However, it should be noted there is a difference between a large wisp > and > a roll up. > Sure if a Roll up just aquired a lot of WISPs, they are going to be a > Large > company of one product line. > Its purely coincidental that it played out that way. Had there been a > Alvarion or Trango roll up, they could easilly scale to same proportion. > Its not necessarilly fair to compare a Roll up venture to original owner > companies. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:11 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > >> JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >>> Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. >>> >>> But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics that >>> back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large provider >>> market. >>> >>> What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban >>> WISPs. They use Aperto. >>> What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two >>> occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot of >>> Alvarion later on. >>> What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of >>> Trango >>> at one point. >>> What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. >>> What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he >>> was >>> mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. >>> What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT >>> primarilly a Canopy shop. >>> >>> Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve >>> in >>> compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and beyond. >>> But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. >>> >>> You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most >>> all >>> of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the >>> largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs to >>> now >>> buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting that >>> Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. >>> >>> I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap >>> frog >>> game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, >>> because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific application >>> on >>> this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well may >>> bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are >>> new >>> products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 markets. >>> >>> And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a >>> croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years later, >>> my >>> Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. >>> >>> I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had the >>> reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could >>> afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for >>> "small >>> operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering leader, >>> and >>> favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down the >>> path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps >>> capacities, >>> therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into >>> winning >>> business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and >>> doesn't >>> want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left >>> that >>> can do it at near the same price point. >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >>>>I guess we need to define large... :-) >>>> >>>> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say >>>> 1000 >>>> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say >>>> 2006 >>>> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and now >>>> they >>>> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. >>>> >>>> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I >>>> for >>>> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they >>>> all >>>> use Canopy... >>>> >>>> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very >>>> wrong >>>> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I >>>> apologize!) >>>> >>>> Daniel White >>>> 3-dB Networks >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>>> >>>>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >>>>> >>>>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may >>>>> use >>>>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >>>>> >>>>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, Alvarion, >>>>> StarOS, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Steve, >>>>> > >>>>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our >>>>> > company >>>>> we >>>>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of >>>>> > our >>>>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an >>>>> > article >>>>> here >>>>> > about leasing that might change your mind. >>>>> > http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >>>>> > >>>>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it >>>>> > allows >>>>> you >>>>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase >>>>> > your >>>>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >>>>> interest, >>>>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >>>>> vendor >>>>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better >>>>> > in >>>>> the >>>>> > article. >>>>> > >>>>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another >>>>> > WISP >>>>> > can >>>>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is >>>>> > equipment >>>>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >>>>> 802.11a/b/g >>>>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were >>>>> > on >>>>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. >>>>> > We >>>>> > had >>>>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been >>>>> > successful >>>>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. >>>>> > Our >>>>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we >>>>> > hit >>>>> the >>>>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >>>>> network >>>>> > in >>>>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that much >>>>> (its >>>>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to >>>>> > it). >>>>> So >>>>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >>>>> > start >>>>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a >>>>> > reason. >>>>> > >>>>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >>>>> > worth >>>>> > much anymore) >>>>> > >>>>> > Daniel White >>>>> > 3-dB Networks >>>>> > >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >> On >>>>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >>>>> >> To: WISPA General List >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. >>>>> >> You >>>>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the ROI >>>>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease Co. >>>>> >> Can you help me with that one. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Steve >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >> On >>>>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >>>>> >> To: WISPA General List >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >>>>> install >>>>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside down" >>>>> >> on >>>>> >> every new customer. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Travis >>>>> >> Microserv >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >>>>> >> subscribers >>>>> >> things will be a bit better. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> >> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >>>>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >>>>> >> different >>>>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >>>>> >> equipment >>>>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >>>>> >> each >>>>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >>>>> >> service the >>>>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >>>>> >> towers with >>>>> >> 320 clients. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >>>>> >> $59.99 Pro >>>>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >>>>> >> off the >>>>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >>>>> >> on any >>>>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >>>>> >> Full >>>>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >>>>> >> of with >>>>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >>>>> >> achieve >>>>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >>>>> >> What do >>>>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >>>>> >> started you >>>>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >>>>> >> and I >>>>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >>>>> >> the same >>>>> >> boat. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >>>>> >> definition >>>>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >>>>> >> is not >>>>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >>>>> >> No >>>>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >>>>> >> Verizon. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Steve Barnes >>>>> >> >>>>> >> RC-WiFi.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> - >>>>> >> -------- >>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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