LOL this would be the point where I have to shut up and not say more than I already have. but there is a lot of smaller Canopy WISP's in there too :-)
Daniel White 3-dB Networks _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds At ISPCon, JAB said they had 50,000 subs.... so does that mean only 50% is Canopy? ;) Travis Microserv 3-dB Networks wrote: That's why I pointed out that three of the companies they rolled up were large Canopy WISP's in of themselves. If Digis was 15,000 Canopy Subscribers... than that makes probably 26,000 or so of that amount representative from Mesa, Digis, and LP Broadband that is Canopy (Taking out about a 1,000 for the combined Tranzeo customers in the network, although that number is probably pretty high). Daniel White 3-dB Networks -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds OK, we'll give you JAB, as one of the largest WISPs that uses Canopy. However, it should be noted there is a difference between a large wisp and a roll up. Sure if a Roll up just aquired a lot of WISPs, they are going to be a Large company of one product line. Its purely coincidental that it played out that way. Had there been a Alvarion or Trango roll up, they could easilly scale to same proportion. Its not necessarilly fair to compare a Roll up venture to original owner companies. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics that back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large provider market. What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban WISPs. They use Aperto. What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot of Alvarion later on. What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of Trango at one point. What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he was mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT primarilly a Canopy shop. Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve in compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and beyond. But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most all of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs to now buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting that Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap frog game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific application on this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well may bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are new products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 markets. And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years later, my Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had the reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for "small operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering leader, and favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down the path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps capacities, therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into winning business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and doesn't want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left that can do it at near the same price point. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "3-dB Networks" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds I guess we need to define large... :-) You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say 1000 customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say 2006 on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and now they are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I for one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they all use Canopy... Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very wrong :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I apologize!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may use Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, etc. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "3-dB Networks" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds Steve, I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our company we are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of our success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an article here about leasing that might change your mind. http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it allows you to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase your revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the interest, but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your vendor instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better in the article. Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another WISP can replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is equipment related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an 802.11a/b/g solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were on KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. We had many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been successful without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. Our WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we hit the limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo network in 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that much (its all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to it). So while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and start over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason. My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't worth much anymore) Daniel White 3-dB Networks -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so that the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. You still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the ROI takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease Co. Can you help me with that one. Steve From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the install fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside down" on every new customer. Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 subscribers things will be a bit better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Barnes" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth different WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended equipment that is so often discussed on this list. I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch each penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to service the clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other that what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 towers with 320 clients. The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a $59.99 Pro Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn off the speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M on any of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS Full Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost of with another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to achieve 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. What do you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have started you service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have and I know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in the same boat. So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND definition without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is everyone charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing is not readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. No Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge Verizon. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- - -------- WISPA Wants You! 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