> Mot has more than 50% of the US market Is that based on amount of gear sold, or amount of gear still deployed?
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > Digis was 100% Canopy. I think they had about 15,000 at the time of the > purchase. > We have 5000+ all Canopy. > Mot has more than 50% of the US market. So the other 50% is made up of > Trango, Tranzeo, MT etc etc etc. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > >> That's probably slightly aggressive Chuck... but at the scale they are at >> your not that far off... >> >> Its even a more interesting picture if you look at the WISP's they >> bought... >> Three more large WISP's by my definition, all Canopy shops... are part of >> them. Mesa, Digis, and LP Broadband. All Canopy shops (granted Mesa had >> some legacy Tranzeo in there, LP had a lot of Matt Larsen's last WISP's >> Tranzeo gear still running, I don't know anything really about Digis's >> part >> of the network). >> >> Heck Chuck... your above 5,000 wireless subs aren't you? >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 >>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:11 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >>> > Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. >>> > >>> > But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics >>> > that >>> > back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large >>> > provider >>> > market. >>> > >>> > What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest >>> > Urban >>> > WISPs. They use Aperto. >>> > What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one >>> > two >>> > occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot >>> > of >>> > Alvarion later on. >>> > What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of >>> > Trango >>> > at one point. >>> > What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. >>> > What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he >>> was >>> > mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. >>> > What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT >>> > primarilly a Canopy shop. >>> > >>> > Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve >>> in >>> > compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and >>> > beyond. >>> > But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. >>> > >>> > You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, >>> > most >>> > all >>> > of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of >>> > the >>> > largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs >>> > to >>> > now >>> > buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting >>> > that >>> > Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. >>> > >>> > I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a >>> > leap >>> > frog >>> > game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, >>> > because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific >>> > application >>> > on >>> > this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well >>> > may >>> > bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are >>> new >>> > products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 >>> > markets. >>> > >>> > And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's >>> > a >>> > croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years >>> > later, >>> > my >>> > Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. >>> > >>> > I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had >>> > the >>> > reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could >>> > afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for >>> > "small >>> > operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering >>> > leader, >>> > and >>> > favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down >>> > the >>> > path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps >>> > capacities, >>> > therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into >>> > winning >>> > business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and >>> > doesn't >>> > want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left >>> that >>> > can do it at near the same price point. >>> > >>> > >>> > Tom DeReggi >>> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> > >>> > >>> >>I guess we need to define large... :-) >>> >> >>> >> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over >>> >> say >>> >> 1000 >>> >> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in >>> >> say >>> >> 2006 >>> >> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and >>> >> now >>> >> they >>> >> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. >>> >> >>> >> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I >>> for >>> >> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and >>> >> they >>> >> all >>> >> use Canopy... >>> >> >>> >> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very >>> >> wrong >>> >> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I >>> >> apologize!) >>> >> >>> >> Daniel White >>> >> 3-dB Networks >>> >> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>> >>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >>> >>> To: WISPA General List >>> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >>> >>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >>> >>> >>> >>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may >>> use >>> >>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >>> >>> >>> >>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, >>> >>> Alvarion, >>> >>> StarOS, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Steve, >>> >>> > >>> >>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our >>> >>> > company >>> >>> we >>> >>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of >>> our >>> >>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an >>> article >>> >>> here >>> >>> > about leasing that might change your mind. >>> http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it >>> allows >>> >>> you >>> >>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase >>> your >>> >>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >>> >>> interest, >>> >>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >>> >>> vendor >>> >>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it >>> >>> > better >>> in >>> >>> the >>> >>> > article. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that >>> >>> > another >>> >>> > WISP >>> >>> > can >>> >>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is >>> equipment >>> >>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >>> >>> 802.11a/b/g >>> >>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers >>> >>> > were >>> on >>> >>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really >>> >>> > fast. >>> >>> > We >>> >>> > had >>> >>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been >>> successful >>> >>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an >>> >>> > AP. >>> >>> > Our >>> >>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we >>> hit >>> >>> the >>> >>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >>> >>> network >>> >>> > in >>> >>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that >>> >>> > much >>> >>> (its >>> >>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to >>> it). >>> >>> So >>> >>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >>> >>> > start >>> >>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a >>> reason. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >>> >>> > worth >>> >>> > much anymore) >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Daniel White >>> >>> > 3-dB Networks >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >> On >>> >>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >>> >>> >> To: WISPA General List >>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it >>> >>> >> so >>> >>> >> that >>> >>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. >>> You >>> >>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the >>> >>> >> ROI >>> >>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease >>> >>> >> Co. >>> >>> >> Can you help me with that one. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Steve >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >> On >>> >>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >>> >>> >> To: WISPA General List >>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >>> >>> install >>> >>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside >>> >>> >> down" >>> >>> >> on >>> >>> >> every new customer. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Travis >>> >>> >> Microserv >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >>> >>> >> subscribers >>> >>> >> things will be a bit better. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >>> >>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >>> >>> >> different >>> >>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >>> >>> >> equipment >>> >>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >>> >>> >> each >>> >>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >>> >>> >> service the >>> >>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >>> >>> >> that >>> >>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >>> >>> >> towers with >>> >>> >> 320 clients. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >>> >>> >> $59.99 Pro >>> >>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >>> >>> >> off the >>> >>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >>> >>> >> on any >>> >>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >>> >>> >> Full >>> >>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >>> >>> >> of with >>> >>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >>> >>> >> achieve >>> >>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >>> >>> >> What do >>> >>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >>> >>> >> started you >>> >>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >>> >>> >> and I >>> >>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >>> >>> >> the same >>> >>> >> boat. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >>> >>> >> definition >>> >>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >>> >>> >> everyone >>> >>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >>> >>> >> is not >>> >>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >>> >>> >> No >>> >>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >>> >>> >> Verizon. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Steve Barnes >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> RC-WiFi.com >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> - >>> >>> >> -------- >>> >>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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