Digis was 100% Canopy. I think they had about 15,000 at the time of the purchase. We have 5000+ all Canopy. Mot has more than 50% of the US market. So the other 50% is made up of Trango, Tranzeo, MT etc etc etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > That's probably slightly aggressive Chuck... but at the scale they are at > your not that far off... > > Its even a more interesting picture if you look at the WISP's they > bought... > Three more large WISP's by my definition, all Canopy shops... are part of > them. Mesa, Digis, and LP Broadband. All Canopy shops (granted Mesa had > some legacy Tranzeo in there, LP had a lot of Matt Larsen's last WISP's > Tranzeo gear still running, I don't know anything really about Digis's > part > of the network). > > Heck Chuck... your above 5,000 wireless subs aren't you? > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:11 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >> > Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. >> > >> > But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics >> > that >> > back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large >> > provider >> > market. >> > >> > What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban >> > WISPs. They use Aperto. >> > What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two >> > occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot >> > of >> > Alvarion later on. >> > What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of >> > Trango >> > at one point. >> > What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. >> > What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he >> was >> > mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. >> > What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT >> > primarilly a Canopy shop. >> > >> > Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve >> in >> > compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and >> > beyond. >> > But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. >> > >> > You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most >> > all >> > of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the >> > largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs >> > to >> > now >> > buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting >> > that >> > Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. >> > >> > I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap >> > frog >> > game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, >> > because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific >> > application >> > on >> > this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well >> > may >> > bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are >> new >> > products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 >> > markets. >> > >> > And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a >> > croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years >> > later, >> > my >> > Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. >> > >> > I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had >> > the >> > reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could >> > afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for >> > "small >> > operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering >> > leader, >> > and >> > favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down >> > the >> > path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps >> > capacities, >> > therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into >> > winning >> > business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and >> > doesn't >> > want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left >> that >> > can do it at near the same price point. >> > >> > >> > Tom DeReggi >> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> > >> > >> >>I guess we need to define large... :-) >> >> >> >> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say >> >> 1000 >> >> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say >> >> 2006 >> >> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and >> >> now >> >> they >> >> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. >> >> >> >> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I >> for >> >> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they >> >> all >> >> use Canopy... >> >> >> >> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very >> >> wrong >> >> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I >> >> apologize!) >> >> >> >> Daniel White >> >> 3-dB Networks >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >> >>> To: WISPA General List >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >>> >> >>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >> >>> >> >>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may >> use >> >>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >> >>> >> >>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, >> >>> Alvarion, >> >>> StarOS, etc. >> >>> >> >>> Tom DeReggi >> >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > Steve, >> >>> > >> >>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our >> >>> > company >> >>> we >> >>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of >> our >> >>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an >> article >> >>> here >> >>> > about leasing that might change your mind. >> http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >> >>> > >> >>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it >> allows >> >>> you >> >>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase >> your >> >>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >> >>> interest, >> >>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >> >>> vendor >> >>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better >> in >> >>> the >> >>> > article. >> >>> > >> >>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another >> >>> > WISP >> >>> > can >> >>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is >> equipment >> >>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >> >>> 802.11a/b/g >> >>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were >> on >> >>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. >> >>> > We >> >>> > had >> >>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been >> successful >> >>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. >> >>> > Our >> >>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we >> hit >> >>> the >> >>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >> >>> network >> >>> > in >> >>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that >> >>> > much >> >>> (its >> >>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to >> it). >> >>> So >> >>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >> >>> > start >> >>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a >> reason. >> >>> > >> >>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >> >>> > worth >> >>> > much anymore) >> >>> > >> >>> > Daniel White >> >>> > 3-dB Networks >> >>> > >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> >> On >> >>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >> >>> >> To: WISPA General List >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. >> You >> >>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the >> >>> >> ROI >> >>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease >> >>> >> Co. >> >>> >> Can you help me with that one. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Steve >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> >> On >> >>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >> >>> >> To: WISPA General List >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >> >>> install >> >>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside >> >>> >> down" >> >>> >> on >> >>> >> every new customer. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Travis >> >>> >> Microserv >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >> >>> >> subscribers >> >>> >> things will be a bit better. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >> >>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >> >>> >> different >> >>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >> >>> >> equipment >> >>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >> >>> >> each >> >>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >> >>> >> service the >> >>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >> >>> >> towers with >> >>> >> 320 clients. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >> >>> >> $59.99 Pro >> >>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >> >>> >> off the >> >>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >> >>> >> on any >> >>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >> >>> >> Full >> >>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >> >>> >> of with >> >>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >> >>> >> achieve >> >>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >> >>> >> What do >> >>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >> >>> >> started you >> >>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >> >>> >> and I >> >>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >> >>> >> the same >> >>> >> boat. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >> >>> >> definition >> >>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >> >>> >> everyone >> >>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >> >>> >> is not >> >>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >> >>> >> No >> >>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >> >>> >> Verizon. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Steve Barnes >> >>> >> >> >>> >> RC-WiFi.com >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >>> - >> >>> >> -------- >> >>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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