Matt,
This was Animal Farm... they had a 300Mbps link off their fiber
backbone into this facility. Why would you cap people at 1Mbps? The
issue is without polling, there is no way to control usage in a fair,
equal manner.
Let me explain what I have found in the last year. We did all kinds of
testing with Mikrotik, Nanostations, OSBridge, StarOS, etc. We decided
to deploy Mikrotik and use their Nstreme protocol to provide a
consistant, polling based solution using off-the-shelf components. We
have about 60 AP's deployed. We have found that even with polling and
QoS on every single user, the system starts to have issues above 50
users. So we figured no problem, just put up more AP's on the same
towers. Even while using only 10mhz channel sizes, you have to have at
least 20mhz between AP's or they cause interference. So, we now have
some towers with 6 Mikrotik AP's, but instead of using 60mhz of
spectrum, we are using more like 180mhz of spectrum.
Only having been in the Canopy game for less than a month, I can tell
you so far having GPS sync and timing is pretty cool. I can put as many
AP's as I want on a tower, and all over everywhere, and I don't have to
worry about stepping on myself. So each AP uses 25mhz, but I can get
200+ subs on each AP, and I can deliver 7-10ms latency all the time, to
every single user.
And, with the last promo that Motorola did, I purchased 24 APs' for
less than $600 each. :)
Travis
Microserv
Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
Travis,
Ok, I'm game.
First of all, a plain 802.11g wireless AP should be thrown in the junk
pile and replaced with StarOS or MT. Depending on the quality of
signal and modulation rates from the majority of the users, I would have
also removed some of the higher mods to reduce rate shifts. And then,
I would have set up bandwidth profiles for each user to something in the
1meg down/512K up range. That would pretty much fix the bandwidth and
latency problem.
When I do your upload test, I don't have the same problems. I do
bandwidth control in the access point, and with upload rates set to half
of the download rates, I have no problem putting 50 to 75 users on one
AP and still provide good download speeds (1meg/2meg/4meg packages) with
decent latency (20-40ms latency at peaks) and no packet loss. That is
also with quite a few VOIP users who would be howling if the service
didn't work.
BTW, Canopy radios at $160 are double the cost of a NanoStation.
Canopy with a reflector is 3x the cost of a Bullet5 and 26db grid.
StarOS APs are at least 1/4th the cost of a comparable Canopy AP.
Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
Travis Johnson wrote:
Matt,
I know we have already discussed this several times, and I'm not sure
we need to do it again... but maybe you could explain how you could
have setup a plain 802.11g wireless AP so that each client (using all
different kinds of wireless adapters) could have gotten equal
bandwidth and latency at AF09?
And, once again, I have done test after test after test using 802.11
stuff... and every single time (using Mikrotik without Nstreme, using
StarOS, using OSBridge and using Nanostations) if we setup an AP and
we connect two clients with laptops and start a continuous upload, the
other client is basically dead in the water. Even if we limit the
upload to 2Mbps or 3Mbps, when that client starts the upload, the
other client has very high latency, very bad download speeds, etc.
As for price on Canopy vs. 802.11... things are not always as they
seem. I know of a large Canopy operator that is buying radios for $160
each. ;)
And, we have Trango AP's that only deliver 5Mbps total with 128
clients and we deliver 4ms latency to every single client.
Travis
Microserv
Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
Sorry Travis, but you are dead wrong about 802.11 not being able to
scale beyond 20 users, especially with 802.11a. I explained how it can
be done to you before and I have consulting clients with 10,000 plus
users on their 802.11 based networks scaling right up to the same size
as any Canopy or Trango network. You might not be able to get to 150
subs per AP, but you can certainly hit 50-75 per sector and offer
service that is damn close and a far sight cheaper than what Canopy will
do. I would take a StarOS a/b/g network over a Canopy system every day
of the week.
As far as problems at AF09 - that is what you get when Canopy guys are
running an 802.11 network. If I was running it with the proven
equipment and deployment methods that many of us use on 802.11 networks,
there would not have been any such problems. Just because the AF09
guys couldn't figure it out (or more likely didn't bother to try)
doesn't mean that it can't be done right.
Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
Travis Johnson wrote:
The problem will be that they are still plain 802.11 technology. There
is no polling or ARQ or FEC or anything else that makes technology like
Trango, Canopy and others work so well. We pulled all of our 802.11
stuff down over 5 years ago. It does NOT scale. You will never get an AP
with reliable, consistent service with more than 20 users.
In fact, I think we witnessed this at AF09. Everyone connected to the
same AP (48 I think was the count) and we continually got disconnected
and the speeds and latency were terrible. Could there be a better "real
world" experience than that? :)
Travis
Microserv
Jerry Richardson wrote:
All I can do is shake my head. Ubiquity seems to have acquired some
Area51 technology.....
__________________________________
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review...
I deployed my first Bullet5 today. Not the high power, but the
standard.
throughput testing showed insignificant difference between my
Star-OS/WAR1
combo and the Bullet. The AP shows that the Bullet has active
compression
and fast frames that functions with my star-os access point.
I have not tried the narrower channels to see if they're compatible with
my star-os AP's.
They have been certified with up to 30 db antennas.
Summary... 1 bullet5, 1 pacwireless 25 db grid w/pigtail, 1 universal
mount = very cheap 5 ghz cpe - about $130 - 140 complete. Even
nicer???
The bullet slides down INTO the universal mount pipe, becoming invisible
after you mount and aim it.
Just FYI... The Bullet does NAT and has a DHCP server built in. No
need
for a router, allows you to have a fully routed network.
Opinion.... I like them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<insert witty tagline here>
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