No, I don't have a target for Motorola Canopy, we sell it, and it represents less than 3% of our total sales volume. Having those stock levels of various items and sales volumes is rather easy though, and we have maintained them after our first year with steady growth. We're mostly MikroTik/UBNT/Vecima/ARC/PAC/Teletronics, but we do sell quite a few other products. We just focus on our core products which we are already direct on.
My point was that there are many wisps out there claiming a certain price, but really never reach those volumes or ascertain those pricing levels. I know of a WISP in Texas who had a tech claiming $160 per CPE pricing, then when I approached their purchasing department for ancillary products, they were paying 1% over my cost, through a deal with Motorola, far from $160 per CPE. They currently have about 40k subscribers and add between 600-1k per month. I've been in this league almost two years...and yet I haven't been in this market as long as you, I do know and understand the game. Having been to multiple distributors like the ones you mentioned, our inventory levels are close to similar in comparison. Regards, Chuck Hogg Avolutia, LLC 502-722-9292 ch...@avolutia.com http://www.avolutia.com http://www.shelbybb.com -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu (CTI) Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... - OFFLIST Chuck, Just a word of friendly advice The Canopy / WISP resale world is a competitive and brutal space -- if your plan is to target WISPs, I'd recommend that you save the trouble and find another vertical market or product The "reseller" cost that you see isn't that far off of what "street WISP" pricing is for anyone who's deploying in any decent quantity -- that's just the nature of the business You need a minimum of $5 million / year in volume and probably close to $500k in stock to "get in the WISP game" -- but at this point in the game, you're in a chicken & egg situation, since I'm not quite sure how you'd build up that volume, given that (1) most WISPs already have pre-existing relationships with their current suppliers, and inertia is an extremely hard thing to break (2) any new WISP you spend the time to get going that results in any decent volume will probably get swiped by the "bigger guys" because it ultimately all boils down to price and financing -- and they have the volume and pricing advantage to take you out of the market There's a reason why Streakwave went back to focus on Mikrotik / Ubiquiti 2 years ago Irregardless, whether or not you choose to listen to my advice, Welcome to the big leagues =) -Charles P.S. -- we need to sync up again sometime and talk about how IP Pay can save you $$$ -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... The cheapest I have ever seen large bulk distributor pricing with buyback money is a little over $200 per SM except 900Mhz. Now, if you are looking at the Lite version SM's they certainly can be had for cheaper. All these WISPs claiming cheaper price is not telling the truth. Even Motorola disputes the price when questioned (yes I am a distributor of Motorola products too). Ask that WISP to buy 100 packs from them for me, I'll pay a 10% premium! Also, I agree with both of you here. Having both 900MHz Trango and 2.4Ghz MikroTik, the Trango performs very impressively with >50 clients per AP. I have a few AP's that are currently 100+ and they don't drop packets, and the latency is great in comparison. However, properly maintained 802.11 networks do pretty well also, but I don't see them outperforming what Trango does on clients per AP level. Regards, Chuck Hogg Avolutia, LLC 502-722-9292 ch...@avolutia.com http://www.avolutia.com http://www.shelbybb.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... Matt, I know we have already discussed this several times, and I'm not sure we need to do it again... but maybe you could explain how you could have setup a plain 802.11g wireless AP so that each client (using all different kinds of wireless adapters) could have gotten equal bandwidth and latency at AF09? And, once again, I have done test after test after test using 802.11 stuff... and every single time (using Mikrotik without Nstreme, using StarOS, using OSBridge and using Nanostations) if we setup an AP and we connect two clients with laptops and start a continuous upload, the other client is basically dead in the water. Even if we limit the upload to 2Mbps or 3Mbps, when that client starts the upload, the other client has very high latency, very bad download speeds, etc. As for price on Canopy vs. 802.11... things are not always as they seem. I know of a large Canopy operator that is buying radios for $160 each. ;) And, we have Trango AP's that only deliver 5Mbps total with 128 clients and we deliver 4ms latency to every single client. Travis Microserv Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Sorry Travis, but you are dead wrong about 802.11 not being able to scale beyond 20 users, especially with 802.11a. I explained how it can be done to you before and I have consulting clients with 10,000 plus users on their 802.11 based networks scaling right up to the same size as any Canopy or Trango network. You might not be able to get to 150 subs per AP, but you can certainly hit 50-75 per sector and offer service that is damn close and a far sight cheaper than what Canopy will do. I would take a StarOS a/b/g network over a Canopy system every day of the week. As far as problems at AF09 - that is what you get when Canopy guys are running an 802.11 network. If I was running it with the proven equipment and deployment methods that many of us use on 802.11 networks, there would not have been any such problems. Just because the AF09 guys couldn't figure it out (or more likely didn't bother to try) doesn't mean that it can't be done right. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Travis Johnson wrote: The problem will be that they are still plain 802.11 technology. There is no polling or ARQ or FEC or anything else that makes technology like Trango, Canopy and others work so well. We pulled all of our 802.11 stuff down over 5 years ago. It does NOT scale. You will never get an AP with reliable, consistent service with more than 20 users. In fact, I think we witnessed this at AF09. Everyone connected to the same AP (48 I think was the count) and we continually got disconnected and the speeds and latency were terrible. Could there be a better "real world" experience than that? :) Travis Microserv Jerry Richardson wrote: All I can do is shake my head. Ubiquity seems to have acquired some Area51 technology..... __________________________________ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... I deployed my first Bullet5 today. Not the high power, but the standard. throughput testing showed insignificant difference between my Star-OS/WAR1 combo and the Bullet. The AP shows that the Bullet has active compression and fast frames that functions with my star-os access point. I have not tried the narrower channels to see if they're compatible with my star-os AP's. They have been certified with up to 30 db antennas. Summary... 1 bullet5, 1 pacwireless 25 db grid w/pigtail, 1 universal mount = very cheap 5 ghz cpe - about $130 - 140 complete. Even nicer??? The bullet slides down INTO the universal mount pipe, becoming invisible after you mount and aim it. Just FYI... The Bullet does NAT and has a DHCP server built in. No need for a router, allows you to have a fully routed network. Opinion.... I like them. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <insert witty tagline here> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- WISPA Wants You! 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