One other thing to consider: The gas engine in hybrids are often "tuned down" so they are just about gutless, but very lean on gas. On hot 115+ days here, the electric on my old Prius will shut off to keep the batteries from having problems. It's sometimes scary trying to pull out into an intersection in that condition.
Randy Chuck Bartosch wrote: > Obviously a hybrid has a hybrid engine or it wouldn't be a hybrid. It > can't kick the saved braking energy into a gas engine, hence the need > for the second engine. As I understand it, a hybrid also saves because > they are often designed to shut off the gas engine when coasting, > slowing, stopped or idling (non hybrids *could* be designed that way > too, if you trusted the engine to always start back up), and to > provide an acceleration boost, allowing the gas engine to work in a > more efficient range. > > A hybrid gains gas mileage at low speeds partly because it recovers > braking energy, not because it has an electric engine per se. If you > could recover braking energy and use it in a conventional car and shut > off the engine when slowing, stopping, and idling, it'd have better > gas mileage too when you drive slower due to reduce aero drag. > > The truth is, if you drove a hybrid for 400 miles at 30 MPH without > braking and the same car with a conventional engine for 200 miles at > 30 MPH without braking, you should end up with pretty much the same MPG. > > Starting a gas engine to charge a battery to run an electric engine > loses energy every time an energy conversion is made (gas to > mechanical to stored electrical back to mechanical). However, if > you're accelerating a lot, the electric engine picks up a big > advantage, especially if the driver is a lead foot, because that's > what electrical engines are good at...going from stopped to 'fast' > without a lot of waste. As far as I am aware, that is the primary > reason to use *gas* to charge batteries to run an electric motor > because otherwise it'd be *less* efficient, and IS less efficient in > constant load driving (say highway driving in flat areas). > > On the other hand, at constant highway speeds, hybrid and conventional > cars are essentially the same though hybrid cars are often designed > with more attention to gas saving than conventional cars so they eke > out a bit more for reasons that could have been applied to the > conventional car (for example, possibly shutting off the engine when > coasting down a slight hill). > > Chuck > > On Feb 12, 2009, at 9:44 AM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: > > >> That description is not hybrid. Its called KERS (Kinetic Energy >> Recovery System) and is a technique used to recharge the batteries >> in a hybrid car without using the gas engine to recharge the >> battery. Most hybrid cars have a battery driven engine and a gas >> powered engine. when driving it will primary use the battery engine >> but if the batteries starts to get run down the gas engine starts up >> to propel the car and recharge the battery in newer hybrid you have >> the KERS to help boost the recharge by recovering energy when >> breaking which is why a hybrid car can get so very good city traffic >> mileage since obviously you have to break and stop. >> >> /Eje >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Bartosch <ch...@clarityconnect.com> >> >> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:17:39 >> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >> >> >> Right-the primary reason a hybrid saves gas is by recovering *some* >> otherwise wasted braking energy. But you'd get better mileage by not >> breaking in the first place, which you don't hopefully do a lot of on >> the highway. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Feb 12, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >> >>> Not on the highway it won't. grin That's the biggest reason I >>> didn't even >>> look at one. Highway miles (almost all of my 30k+ per year miles) >>> are often >>> no better than any other rig. >>> marlon >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mike Hammett" <wispawirel...@ics-il.net> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:10 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>> >>> >>> >>>> You can still drive a hybrid... >>>> >>>> http://www.internationaltrucks.com/portal/site/ITrucks/menuitem.a1d4a3932b46e05831f8e968121010a0/?vgnextoid=945d07aafbfe6110VgnVCM10000085d0eb0aRCRD >>>> >>>> UPS also has some of their trucks powered by International hybrid >>>> technology. I think the one our local center had was getting over >>>> 40 mpg. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Mark Nash" <markl...@uwol.net> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:15 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>>> >>>> >>>>> I always thought of buying a hybrid... >>>>> >>>>> ...then putting it in the bed of my truck and hauling it around >>>>> just to >>>>> say >>>>> that I take my hybrid everywhere I go... >>>>> >>>>> Mark Nash >>>>> UnwiredWest >>>>> 78 Centennial Loop >>>>> Suite E >>>>> Eugene, OR 97401 >>>>> 541-998-5555 >>>>> 541-998-5599 fax >>>>> http://www.unwiredwest.com >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "D. Ryan Spott" <rsp...@cspott.com> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:38 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Made me think of a license plate holder I saw on an SUV: >>>>>> "Buy a hybrid, I need your gas!" >>>>>> >>>>>> ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> D. Ryan Spott >>>>>> rsp...@cspott.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 10, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If it makes you feel better, today we only got 8mpg while pulling >>>>>>> our sno-cat (with a Duramax even) at 80mph down the freeway. ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Travis >>>>>>> Microserv >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark Nash wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LOL I was just thinking about revitalizing this thread as I was >>>>>>>> speeding >>>>>>>> across our valley here because one of our techs called in sick. >>>>>>>> Had 4 >>>>>>>> appointments to keep...about 120 miles to cover... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...and MY service truck is an F350/V10 - crew cab - full bed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...I get 10 on a good day. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Nash >>>>>>>> UnwiredWest >>>>>>>> 78 Centennial Loop >>>>>>>> Suite E >>>>>>>> Eugene, OR 97401 >>>>>>>> 541-998-5555 >>>>>>>> 541-998-5599 fax >>>>>>>> http://www.unwiredwest.com >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <o...@odessaoffice.com> >>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:44 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> fyi, it's not a van... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.leasetrader.com/photos/actual98286/640x480/GMC-Envoy-XL-Sport-Utility.jpeg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wanted a red or blue one with a v8 (327 and those one's >>>>>>>>> HAUL!!!!). Had >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> settle for a completely loaded white one though. Leather, DVD >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> kids, >>>>>>>>> heated seats and seat backs, blinkers on the mirrors, air ride >>>>>>>>> suspension >>>>>>>>> (this rig rides better than any car I've ever had) etc. It's >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> nearly >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> foot and a half longer than the standard version. So when you >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> sure you look for the one with the 3rd seat. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories?_nkw=gmc+envoy+xl&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=gmc+envoy&_osacat=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> These are the same thing as the Chevy Trailblazer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The XUV version looks pretty interesting too. I ALMOST got >>>>>>>>> one of >>>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>>> didn't like the sales guy though so I walked out on the deal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/GMC-XUV/Photos.htm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They have some of those on ebay too: >>>>>>>>> http://shop.ebay.com/items/__xuv?_trkparms=72%253A317%257C66%253A2%257C65%253A12%257C39%253A1&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_pgn=2 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> laters, >>>>>>>>> Marlon >>>>>>>>> (509) 982-2181 >>>>>>>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services >>>>>>>>> 42846865 (icq) WISP Operator >>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>> 1999! >>>>>>>>> o...@odessaoffice.com >>>>>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless >>>>>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If we could get a van like that financed I would be in >>>>>>>>>> heaven - >>>>>>>>>> my main >>>>>>>>>> benefit is just as you said, everything stays warm. Steel and >>>>>>>>>> cold just >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> not mix. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, >>>>>>>>>> poorly. >>>>>>>>>> --- Henry Spencer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) >>>>>>>>>> 982-2181 < >>>>>>>>>> o...@odessaoffice.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I just picked up an '04 GMC Envoy XL. It's the one with the >>>>>>>>>>> 3rd >>>>>>>>>>> seat. >>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> only getting 16 to 17 mpg with it but it's cheap to insure >>>>>>>>>>> and is >>>>>>>>>>> totally >>>>>>>>>>> loaded. It was just over $13k for a 50,000 mile rig with no >>>>>>>>>>> real flaws. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> did end up having to replace the radiator already, but that >>>>>>>>>>> didn't show >>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>> at first. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The ladder sits on top nicely and is easy to reach. >>>>>>>>>>> Everything >>>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>> sits >>>>>>>>>>> well inside. As a bonus all of my tools etc. stay warm in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> winter >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> cold in the summer. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The 4 wheel drive has been really nice this winter too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best of all? No one else drives around with a ladder on top >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>>>> EVERYONE knows my rig. That alone is a nice sales too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Marlon >>>>>>>>>>> (509) 982-2181 >>>>>>>>>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting >>>>>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>>>>> 42846865 (icq) WISP >>>>>>>>>>> Operator >>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>> 1999! >>>>>>>>>>> o...@odessaoffice.com >>>>>>>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless >>>>>>>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:46 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Service vehicle >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What does everyone use for a service vehicle? We have an >>>>>>>>>>>> 1999 >>>>>>>>>>>> f250 >>>>>>>>>>>> that is at the end of it's road. It has the cabinets and >>>>>>>>>>>> ladder racks >>>>>>>>>>>> to put al our stuff in. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Our tower climber for those picky tower owners has a brand >>>>>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>>>> Dodge. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you haven't seen these check them out. If we could >>>>>>>>>>>> afford >>>>>>>>>>>> these I >>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't be asking :( >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent >>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>> poorly. >>>>>>>>>>>> --- Henry Spencer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> -------------- >> Chuck Bartosch >> Clarity Connect, Inc. >> 200 Pleasant Grove Road >> Ithaca, NY 14850 >> (607) 257-8268 >> >> If all is not lost, where is it? >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > -------------- > Chuck Bartosch > Clarity Connect, Inc. > 200 Pleasant Grove Road > Ithaca, NY 14850 > (607) 257-8268 > > If all is not lost, where is it? > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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