I have not compared them... but I have heard some big operators talk
about problems with Cogent in the past. I just know that Level3 is very
well connected (based on BGP sessions I have brought up).
I'm not sure there is a way to determine "the best" provider out there.
It's all a relative thing depending on your traffic type, flow, and if
you are connected with anyone else.
Travis
George Rogato wrote:
Have you compared them Travis?
I would appreciate real world opinion. Reason is, our upstream on our
last contract had us riding Level3 and when we renegotiated, we found
ourselves riding cogent.
I'm not so sure Level3 is much better. I can recall trace routing stuff
and finding myself hoping from here in Oregon to Chicago and then to San
Jose.
I was thinking Portland to San Jose has to be easy to do, but thats not
the route they take. I realize things change, and I have no problem pay
12.00 for good bandwidth, I'm paying more now under my current contract.
Guess what I would like to know is where to find the ratings of who is
the best, I used to hear Sprint was quality, but that was just a few
opinions.
Travis Johnson wrote:
I have a quote from Level3 for $12.50 per meg.... and it's 10x the
bandwidth that Cogent is... ;)
Travis
Microserv
George Rogato wrote:
Kinda high
If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this
Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with
a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per
meg.
If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg.
George
Blair Davis wrote:
Some simple numbers...
$1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
paying out here.
1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
$170 cost of bandwidth per user.
Users out here are not going to pay that. Period.
The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and
won't understand that.
If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power
to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways.
The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or
begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
Blair
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?
Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just
realistic about what they have available.
And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets
willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal
or greater value, to creat a WISP market.
I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one
public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money
to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a
part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service
sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people,
so less people get left without being served, and more people get better
service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers
will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification
that can be gained today.
WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or
impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up
broke.
I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...
Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an
ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty
upfront (broke :-).
We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements
with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-).
The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also
grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible,
because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy,
and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them
to work harder.
The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth
is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-)
So.... WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford
today!!!
There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for
volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless
providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers
are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a
better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to
favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited
about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish
top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are
competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think
clever innovators should be able to fill it.
$7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans
get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money
to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it
would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start
getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you
go to get a peice of that $billion?
Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals
now.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Folks,
I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This
thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis
together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the
market.
What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they
offer Wireless, DSL & Fiber based Internet services in competition to
Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc)
along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the
entire spectrum of competition. As many of you may know Canada ranks in
the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest
OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th
with 19.6% penetration.
I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model. For the
record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered
indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a
2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at
$40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the
first offer. All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer.
What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a
sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems
to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up
rate in an area. This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which
was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average
real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX
customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that
we use to monitor production networks under a professional services
agreement). I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the
maximum subscribers per sector. I then took the peak subs multiplied by
monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per
sector. The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a
sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other
site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE
required by the peak subscriber calculation. The ROI in months is the
CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU.
I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model
that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the
SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier
using WiMAX.
Cheers!
Kevin
NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a
WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential
services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers):
Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25
640 $ 11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $
300,750 26.17949
$ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70
229 $ 6,388.57 $ 76,662.86 $
115,607 18.09593
$ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200
80 $ 3,036.00 $ 36,432.00 $
48,750 16.05731
$ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 40 275
58 $ 2,498.91 $ 29,986.91 $
38,932 15.57953
$ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425
38 $ 2,746.35 $ 32,956.24 $
29,691 10.81113
Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33
480 $ 8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $
228,750 26.54944
$ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93
171 $ 4,791.43 $ 57,497.14 $
89,893 18.76118
$ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267
60 $ 2,277.00 $ 27,324.00 $
39,750 17.45718
$ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 30 367
44 $ 1,874.18 $ 22,490.18 $
32,386 17.28027
$ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567
28 $ 2,059.76 $ 24,717.18 $
25,456 12.35864
Monthly Max Subs per
Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI
ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription
kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded
sector (months)
$ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50
320 $ 5,744.00 $ 68,928.00 $
156,750 27.28935
$ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140
114 $ 3,194.29 $ 38,331.43 $
64,179 20.09168
$ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 20 400
40 $ 1,518.00 $ 18,216.00 $
30,750 20.25692
$ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 20 550
29 $ 1,249.45 $ 14,993.45 $
25,841 20.68175
$ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 20 850
19 $ 1,373.18 $ 16,478.12 $
21,221 15.45365
-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
2 megs is yesterday's news.
U-Verse is 18/1.5
FiOS is 50/20
Charter has 60/5
Comcast has 50/10
2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than
that.
Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
world?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
hundreds
of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
and
some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.
The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
wireless networking.
Best Regards,
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX
AP anyway... not enough bandwidth.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
station,
that only supports 30 subscribers.
-
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145
-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
Take care leon
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I'm looking into this too.
So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector
install
at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
see
that tower....
Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com>
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" <motor...@wispa.org>; "WISPA
General
List"
<wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Fellow operators:
Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
Any updates on experiences with:
Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
Airspan ???
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
|
