I'm not trying to be confrontational - or get on the really helpful people here. But I am trying to be realistic.
To pinpoint my two big beefs: 1) No info from With 1b) Is WiTango 5 basically Tango 2k SP2? I think its important to state that I have no .tafs I need to convert. All my stuff is in ASP.NET right now. Due to the lack of cross-platform support as well as a few other issues I'm still interested in WiTango. So my goals are different from many of the people here who have a huge amount of .tafs. -- Alex Kac, CEO/Developer Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management http://www.pocketinformant.com/ zoomzoom > From: Jason Pamental <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:37:13 -0400 > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > Alex, everyone, > > Wasn't being evasive; I thought there had been more posted to the list about > what is new in this version. Some of the highlights are: > > -Preemptive multitasking No big deal. This was part of Chimera - i.e. SP2. Not enough for me to get BACK into using WiTango. But yes, its nice. > > -Vastly improved performance (lots of numbers have shown up in benchtesting, > but I don't have specifics at hand) Again, SP2. Not enough for me to pay $$ for it. But at least it brings Tango performance to what it should be. > > -@EMAILSESSION and @EMAIL tags - very cool functionality that lets you > easily create web-based email applications (ok, it's still kinda complicated OK, this is nice. > > -Enhanced and improved error handling and reporting - lets you do much more > accurate error handling in your applications One of my favorite features of Tango - and its getting better: good. > > -improvements and greater stability in the @URL tag, including allowing you > to increase the size of the retrieved data @URL tag bad. @URL Tag bad. That said, I used it fairly often. > > - a huge amount of rewriting to fix bugs, increase stability and in general > overcome a lot of the (*ahem*) shortcomings left unresolved by previous > owners of the software. Sp2 stuff... > > - Phil also demonstrated the prototype of the Java compiler that is really > fantastic: take a taf created in the dev studio, compile it and deploy to > any J2EE server. This has huge implications in the enterprise market, and > even for those who want the ease of development but have to host in > environment that doesn't support Witango on the server side. This is what I'm interested in. And it negates 4 of the above points :) > > Much of the application structure has been set up to allow for a lot of new > things going forward, including adding more native interfaces to other > databases. > > I hope this gives you some of what you're looking for. I don't want to > elaborate too much more because there's an official release due in the > coming days that should outline a lot more, including pricing, testing and > release timelines. > > Jason > > On a more personal note, I'd like to say that I appreciate the more reserved > tone you've taken in the most recent posts. I have to admit that I was > pretty aggravated with some of your posts (and those of others) that took > such a negative tone during and after Macworld. Those of us at Bathysphere > spent a considerable amount of our own money (several thousand dollars) to > attend that show and introduce Witango to the Mac community. This was > because we believe in the software and the people who own it. You should > also know that we committed to this BEFORE we were asked to be a > distributor, so our interest in this did NOT stem from software sales profit > motivation but rather from a desire to see the platform we've been > developing on for years get a good start and achieve the market share we all > feel it deserves. This is what will allow ALL of us to continue making a > living using the software we choose. We all make what contributions we can, > either to the list, to sites like Ben's and Scott's and others, or in our > case, with the booth at Macworld. I'm sorry it aggravated you, but frankly it was meant to aggravate With because I do feel like they have not come through. I do think that With is doing poorly here. I have a very bad - VERY bad opinion of them. Why am I negative? Because With said that info would be forthcoming during MacWorld. Well Macworld came and went. Nothing. Two weeks. Nothing. Not a great way to communicate with your customers. I honestly don't know anything about your company - and I don't think I have to. With is the company that is the core of Tango and so they are the ones I'm upset with. I invested many years learning the ins and outs of Tango. I think PVSW handled things very poorly - and I worked there in IT managing and writing most of the Tango code used there. I think With is handling it poorly as well. I think that Tango can regain marketshare - but only if it matches what the other environment have. If WiTango 5 = Sp2 of t2k with a few minor enhancements, then it will die except by those who have a huge investment in it. > > Much has been said about what plans there are for the new version, in > features, delivery, price and marketing. All of that is unfolding, Macworld > being a big part in starting to gear up media interest. List membership has > grown - last I heard it was up to 1000 subscribers (I was pretty amazed). > Pricing and availability information is starting to filter out to > distributors, but Sophie and Phil would like to make the official release > announcement themselves later this week. With all the hard work and effort > they put into this, they deserve the chance to spill the beans themselves, I totally agree. They deserve to do that - and they should have done it two weeks ago. > and they also deserve all of our applause when they do so. They are about to > deliver what is much more than a full version update to the software; in > some cases it has been rewritten altogether. To do so in little over a year, > on two disparate platforms, is virtually unheard of in the software > industry. It's just too much work to get through in such a short amount of > time. Whether or not the program was rewritten from scratch, if it offers not much more than SP2 of T2k did - its not worth the WiTango 5 nomenclature. Sp2 was a total rewrite - a wonderful one. I waited with baited breath. I even ran builds of it 2 years ago. If WiTango 5 is this - its 2 years late. And that is what I'm trying to find out. I really don't want to be negative on this list - people have better things to do. But I need to know what I'll be using for my sites. If its T2k with SP2 plus a couple minor goodies, well, that helps me and then I go off on my merry way doing my things in another app server without bothering anyone here. > > On 7/30/02 5:06 PM, "Alex Kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> OK - that's great. But again - as I've stated 3 times now - I am not asking >> for a release date that can be broken. I'm asking on WHY we should wait ANY >> length of time. Why should I wait even one more minute? THAT is the gist of >> it. >> >> It seems that anybody who can say anything wants to avoid the whole gist of >> the message - and corners in on that one little thing about release date. >> >> Either WiTango 5 has really nothing to offer that's substantial over T2k to >> make people stay on the Tango platform or people like to read the first >> sentence of an email and ignore the rest. >> >> Yes, I'm frustrated because all I want is some INFO - not release dates. >> None of the reasons you gave were any good for keeping the INFO quiet. >> >> -- >> Alex Kac, CEO/Developer >> >> Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management >> http://www.pocketinformant.com/ >> >> zoomzoom >> >> >>> From: Jason Pamental <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:35:07 -0400 >>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I don't want this to seem '007' or anything BUT... We got some 'official >>> news' this morning and it was too late Sydney time to find out how much of >>> it we can share. I'm hoping to get more word tonight and be able to provide >>> more to you then. Phil has been keeping the info under a lid mainly for two >>> reasons: 1) they want to release as stable a product as possible, and that >>> takes a lot of time and testing, and 2) if he gives a date and issues come >>> up to delay things, that can be even more frustrating than not announcing at >>> all. >>> >>> Some of the delays have been out of their hands (bugs in operating systems, >>> etc) and have necessitated hours spent documenting, reporting the bugs and >>> then working around when the OS vendors don't respond in a timely manner. >>> >>> All that aside, the plan is to ask all of you to participate in a more >>> public beta test starting very soon (now here I can't bee more specific >>> yet), because as Jon pointed out, the list is full of extremely capable >>> developers and you will all no doubt have a lot to contribute. >>> >>> OK - not exactly 'full disclosure' but by the end of the week there will be >>> a lot of info and dates that will be shared with all of you. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> On 7/30/02 4:12 PM, "Brad Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Doesn't Phil or the With team have any officials news?? >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "James MacFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 8:40 AM >>>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Alex, >>>>> >>>>> The survival of WiTango will depend on whether it can compete in today's >>>>> market against products like ColdFusion and .Net >>>>> >>>>> I'd really hate to see them release it half-baked because of market >>>>> pressures. >>>>> >>>>> There are a number of competitive technologies in our midst including the >>>>> recent MX-line from Macromedia, which make integration between ColdFusion >>>>> and Flash very simple using Web Services. If WiTango fails to address >>>> issues >>>>> like these advances before the release the product will not be viable, >>>> will >>>>> not be able to compete in the marketplace and you and I will be forced to >>>>> code in something hideously ugly like ASP. >>>>> >>>>> While I too anticipate this release I'd rather have it when it's ready. I >>>>> agree with your position though -- as developers we need to be able to >>>> build >>>>> viable products and to plan our own technological growth path, which can >>>> be >>>>> difficult to do when something coming down the pipe *sounds* like it may >>>>> solve all your problems but is still off on the foggy distance. >>>>> >>>>> - James. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Kac >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:13 AM >>>>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk >>>>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Especially since it did say on the website that all would be told at >>>>> MacWorld. Well...its been two weeks. I think we need to know: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Relative idea of release - within 30, 60, 90, 120, 360 days >>>>> 2) Some screenshots showing off new Editor features (this to pacify until >>>>> beta is out) >>>>> 3) Some of the feature list >>>>> >>>>> I really do think this is getting long in the tooth. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Alex Kac, CEO/Developer >>>>> >>>>> Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management >>>>> http://www.pocketinformant.com/ >>>>> >>>>> zoomzoom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: Stephen.Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:41:40 -0500 >>>>>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> Subject: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? >>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of teasing. Lots of talk. But MacWorld is now good and over and >>>>>> still no announcements. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil, please don't leave us hanging any longer as we're about to bail >>>> for >>>>>> other technology. We just can't wait much longer - Christmas is coming >>>>>> FAST! >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen, http://onlytoys.com >>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>>>> >>>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>> >>> -- >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Jason Pamental, President [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> Bathysphere Digital Media Services, Inc. http://bathyspheredms.com >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Tel: 401.490.6830 Fax: 401.490.6831 >>> ________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> A North American Distributor for Witango (http://www.witango.com) >>> >>> Rapid Web Application Development - XML Execution Engine >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Jason Pamental, President [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Bathysphere Digital Media Services, Inc. http://bathyspheredms.com > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Tel: 401.490.6830 Fax: 401.490.6831 > ________________________________________ > > > A North American Distributor for Witango (http://www.witango.com) > > Rapid Web Application Development - XML Execution Engine > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
