Hi Alex, You have mentioned JTransit a number of times, and I wanted to respond to that. JTransit certainly has intriguing aspects to it. You can compile both T2K/Witango code and CF code together in one program. The ability to use CF tags in my Witango program would be cool. On the other hand, until (if) they come out with their own editor, you will have to use your own T4 editor. As Witango continues to get new features and constructs (not just new tags), your editor will no longer be viable. You'll at least have to keep upgrading your development studio. Now that Wit5 will support compiling to Java, a lot of the advantage of JTransit goes away. Buying JTransit is also not cost competitive with getting a new Witango upgrade based on the prices I have seen on their site.
The public beta will be out soon, so we won't have to speculate on the features of v5 any more. We might as well just wait a few days or whatever and get our answers then. There are some pet peeves of mine that I've been dying to find out about. I, too, wish they had posted a new feature list, but our wait is coming to an end. Also, the impression I've been getting is that development will continue at a rapid rate after v5 is out. Witango will be an actively developed product now. Whatever is not in 5.0 will get added to in coming versions. I would guess that web services will be something that will be addressed one way or another soon. Scott mentioned that Phil and Sophie were responsive to his feedback. So, let's just relax for the next few days or so and see what Santa brings. Once we find out what is in (and not in) v5, we'll have plenty to talk about. I've got my fingers crossed... Stefan > > From: Jason Pamental <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:37:13 -0400 > > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > > > Alex, everyone, > > > > Wasn't being evasive; I thought there had been more posted to the list > about > > what is new in this version. Some of the highlights are: > > > > -Preemptive multitasking > >No big deal. This was part of Chimera - i.e. SP2. Not enough for me to get >BACK into using WiTango. But yes, its nice. > > > > > -Vastly improved performance (lots of numbers have shown up in > benchtesting, > > but I don't have specifics at hand) > >Again, SP2. Not enough for me to pay $$ for it. But at least it brings Tango >performance to what it should be. > > > > > -@EMAILSESSION and @EMAIL tags - very cool functionality that lets you > > easily create web-based email applications (ok, it's still kinda > complicated > >OK, this is nice. > > > > > -Enhanced and improved error handling and reporting - lets you do much more > > accurate error handling in your applications > >One of my favorite features of Tango - and its getting better: good. > > > > > -improvements and greater stability in the @URL tag, including allowing you > > to increase the size of the retrieved data > >@URL tag bad. @URL Tag bad. That said, I used it fairly often. > > > > > - a huge amount of rewriting to fix bugs, increase stability and in general > > overcome a lot of the (*ahem*) shortcomings left unresolved by previous > > owners of the software. > >Sp2 stuff... > > > > > - Phil also demonstrated the prototype of the Java compiler that is really > > fantastic: take a taf created in the dev studio, compile it and deploy to > > any J2EE server. This has huge implications in the enterprise market, and > > even for those who want the ease of development but have to host in > > environment that doesn't support Witango on the server side. > >This is what I'm interested in. And it negates 4 of the above points :) > > > > > Much of the application structure has been set up to allow for a lot of new > > things going forward, including adding more native interfaces to other > > databases. > > > > I hope this gives you some of what you're looking for. I don't want to > > elaborate too much more because there's an official release due in the > > coming days that should outline a lot more, including pricing, testing and > > release timelines. > > > > Jason > > > > On a more personal note, I'd like to say that I appreciate the more > reserved > > tone you've taken in the most recent posts. I have to admit that I was > > pretty aggravated with some of your posts (and those of others) that took > > such a negative tone during and after Macworld. Those of us at Bathysphere > > spent a considerable amount of our own money (several thousand dollars) to > > attend that show and introduce Witango to the Mac community. This was > > because we believe in the software and the people who own it. You should > > also know that we committed to this BEFORE we were asked to be a > > distributor, so our interest in this did NOT stem from software sales > profit > > motivation but rather from a desire to see the platform we've been > > developing on for years get a good start and achieve the market share > we all > > feel it deserves. This is what will allow ALL of us to continue making a > > living using the software we choose. We all make what contributions we can, > > either to the list, to sites like Ben's and Scott's and others, or in our > > case, with the booth at Macworld. > >I'm sorry it aggravated you, but frankly it was meant to aggravate With >because I do feel like they have not come through. I do think that With is >doing poorly here. I have a very bad - VERY bad opinion of them. Why am I >negative? Because With said that info would be forthcoming during MacWorld. >Well Macworld came and went. Nothing. Two weeks. Nothing. Not a great way to >communicate with your customers. > >I honestly don't know anything about your company - and I don't think I have >to. With is the company that is the core of Tango and so they are the ones >I'm upset with. > >I invested many years learning the ins and outs of Tango. I think PVSW >handled things very poorly - and I worked there in IT managing and writing >most of the Tango code used there. I think With is handling it poorly as >well. > >I think that Tango can regain marketshare - but only if it matches what the >other environment have. If WiTango 5 = Sp2 of t2k with a few minor >enhancements, then it will die except by those who have a huge investment in >it. > > > > > Much has been said about what plans there are for the new version, in > > features, delivery, price and marketing. All of that is unfolding, Macworld > > being a big part in starting to gear up media interest. List membership has > > grown - last I heard it was up to 1000 subscribers (I was pretty amazed). > > Pricing and availability information is starting to filter out to > > distributors, but Sophie and Phil would like to make the official release > > announcement themselves later this week. With all the hard work and effort > > they put into this, they deserve the chance to spill the beans themselves, > >I totally agree. They deserve to do that - and they should have done it two >weeks ago. > > > and they also deserve all of our applause when they do so. They are > about to > > deliver what is much more than a full version update to the software; in > > some cases it has been rewritten altogether. To do so in little over a > year, > > on two disparate platforms, is virtually unheard of in the software > > industry. It's just too much work to get through in such a short amount of > > time. > >Whether or not the program was rewritten from scratch, if it offers not much >more than SP2 of T2k did - its not worth the WiTango 5 nomenclature. Sp2 was >a total rewrite - a wonderful one. I waited with baited breath. I even ran >builds of it 2 years ago. If WiTango 5 is this - its 2 years late. > >And that is what I'm trying to find out. I really don't want to be negative >on this list - people have better things to do. But I need to know what I'll >be using for my sites. If its T2k with SP2 plus a couple minor goodies, >well, that helps me and then I go off on my merry way doing my things in >another app server without bothering anyone here. > > > > > On 7/30/02 5:06 PM, "Alex Kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> OK - that's great. But again - as I've stated 3 times now - I am not > asking > >> for a release date that can be broken. I'm asking on WHY we should > wait ANY > >> length of time. Why should I wait even one more minute? THAT is the > gist of > >> it. > >> > >> It seems that anybody who can say anything wants to avoid the whole > gist of > >> the message - and corners in on that one little thing about release date. > >> > >> Either WiTango 5 has really nothing to offer that's substantial over > T2k to > >> make people stay on the Tango platform or people like to read the first > >> sentence of an email and ignore the rest. > >> > >> Yes, I'm frustrated because all I want is some INFO - not release dates. > >> None of the reasons you gave were any good for keeping the INFO quiet. > >> > >> -- > >> Alex Kac, CEO/Developer > >> > >> Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management > >> http://www.pocketinformant.com/ > >> > >> zoomzoom > >> > >> > >>> From: Jason Pamental <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:35:07 -0400 > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > >>> > >>> All, > >>> > >>> I don't want this to seem '007' or anything BUT... We got some 'official > >>> news' this morning and it was too late Sydney time to find out how > much of > >>> it we can share. I'm hoping to get more word tonight and be able to > provide > >>> more to you then. Phil has been keeping the info under a lid mainly > for two > >>> reasons: 1) they want to release as stable a product as possible, and > that > >>> takes a lot of time and testing, and 2) if he gives a date and issues > come > >>> up to delay things, that can be even more frustrating than not > announcing at > >>> all. > >>> > >>> Some of the delays have been out of their hands (bugs in operating > systems, > >>> etc) and have necessitated hours spent documenting, reporting the > bugs and > >>> then working around when the OS vendors don't respond in a timely manner. > >>> > >>> All that aside, the plan is to ask all of you to participate in a more > >>> public beta test starting very soon (now here I can't bee more specific > >>> yet), because as Jon pointed out, the list is full of extremely capable > >>> developers and you will all no doubt have a lot to contribute. > >>> > >>> OK - not exactly 'full disclosure' but by the end of the week there > will be > >>> a lot of info and dates that will be shared with all of you. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Jason > >>> > >>> On 7/30/02 4:12 PM, "Brad Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Doesn't Phil or the With team have any officials news?? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "James MacFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 8:40 AM > >>>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Alex, > >>>>> > >>>>> The survival of WiTango will depend on whether it can compete in > today's > >>>>> market against products like ColdFusion and .Net > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd really hate to see them release it half-baked because of market > >>>>> pressures. > >>>>> > >>>>> There are a number of competitive technologies in our midst > including the > >>>>> recent MX-line from Macromedia, which make integration between > ColdFusion > >>>>> and Flash very simple using Web Services. If WiTango fails to address > >>>> issues > >>>>> like these advances before the release the product will not be viable, > >>>> will > >>>>> not be able to compete in the marketplace and you and I will be > forced to > >>>>> code in something hideously ugly like ASP. > >>>>> > >>>>> While I too anticipate this release I'd rather have it when it's > ready. I > >>>>> agree with your position though -- as developers we need to be able to > >>>> build > >>>>> viable products and to plan our own technological growth path, > which can > >>>> be > >>>>> difficult to do when something coming down the pipe *sounds* like > it may > >>>>> solve all your problems but is still off on the foggy distance. > >>>>> > >>>>> - James. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex Kac > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:13 AM > >>>>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > >>>>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Especially since it did say on the website that all would be told at > >>>>> MacWorld. Well...its been two weeks. I think we need to know: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) Relative idea of release - within 30, 60, 90, 120, 360 days > >>>>> 2) Some screenshots showing off new Editor features (this to pacify > until > >>>>> beta is out) > >>>>> 3) Some of the feature list > >>>>> > >>>>> I really do think this is getting long in the tooth. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Alex Kac, CEO/Developer > >>>>> > >>>>> Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management > >>>>> http://www.pocketinformant.com/ > >>>>> > >>>>> zoomzoom > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> From: Stephen.Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:41:40 -0500 > >>>>>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>> Subject: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lots of teasing. Lots of talk. But MacWorld is now good and over and > >>>>>> still no announcements. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Phil, please don't leave us hanging any longer as we're about to bail > >>>> for > >>>>>> other technology. We just can't wait much longer - Christmas is coming > >>>>>> FAST! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Stephen, http://onlytoys.com > >>>>>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > >>>>> > >>>>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > >>>>> > >>>> ________________________________________________________________________ > >>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Jason Pamental, President [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> Bathysphere Digital Media Services, Inc. http://bathyspheredms.com > >>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Tel: 401.490.6830 Fax: 401.490.6831 > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> A North American Distributor for Witango (http://www.witango.com) > >>> > >>> Rapid Web Application Development - XML Execution Engine > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________________________________________________ > >>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > >>> > >> > >> ________________________________________________________________________ > >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > > -- > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Jason Pamental, President [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Bathysphere Digital Media Services, Inc. http://bathyspheredms.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Tel: 401.490.6830 Fax: 401.490.6831 > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > A North American Distributor for Witango (http://www.witango.com) > > > > Rapid Web Application Development - XML Execution Engine > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body ======================================================== Database WebWorks: Dynamic web sites through database integration http://www.DatabaseWebWorks.com ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
