Actually I see that the airspace control is the "main point" why the
software loggers are not approved because the restricting altitudes are
mostly defined in standard pressure. The gps altitude is not pressure
altitude neither the accuracy on vertical component of GPS coordinates
isn't as good as lateral.
About the OLC flights it depends quite a lot WHERE you are flying. Here
in Finland it is quite possible to fly long flights without ever being
close to another glider, if you fly somewhere else than southern Finland ;)
hannu
On 29.3.2011 9:20, martin.kopp...@gmx.de wrote:
If loggers would cooperate more tightly with EG Flarms, they could
also log meeting other aircraft during the flight. These events would
be hardly predictable by anyone interested in tampering with the
flight data. During scoring, flight data of all pilots could then
automatically be checked against each other. I can imagine that his
would make even a software logger tamper proof up to an extent that
practically makes data manipulation impossible in comps, especially if
collected flights are not published before all the IGC-Files have been
turned in.
AFAIK the standard Flarm box does already collect this data as a means
for a range check analysis.
It could well be that one could spoof a flight for decentralised
competitions such as OLC, because one could argue that there was no
other glider close enough all flight long, but even that is quite
unlikely.
Viele Grüße,
Martin Kopplow
---
Am 29.03.2011 um 07:34 schrieb "Luke O'Donnell"
<l.odonnel...@gmail.com <mailto:l.odonnel...@gmail.com>>:
Ahh, that's right, i forgot they had internal altitude sensors.
I don't think for one second that trying to cheat by tampering with a
log would be easy - spoofing tens of thousands of datapoints in such
a way that it looks like a valid flight would be incredibly difficult
and time consuming - time that would be much better spent practicing
:P. Having said that, much the same would apply to attempting to
tamper with a non-IGC approved logger, you would still need to spoof
the datapoints in such a way that it looks like a valid flight.
From what i've seen, it's common practice for competition pilots
(especially at the higher levels) to look at the top few pilots
traces for the day to see what better decisions they made, so it's
not as though people wouldn't notice the trace behaving significantly
different to what they are used to seeing. I guess i'm just saying
that trying to successfully spoof a trace even with a non-igc
approved logger would be very difficult to get away with in real
life, and would likely see you never competing again (rightly so).
I'm not convinced the biggest hurdle would be trying to overcome the
protections put in place by the IGC certification, but rather the
sort of problems mentioned above.
Luke
On 29 March 2011 15:23, Hannu Niemi <hnpi...@phnet.fi
<mailto:hnpi...@phnet.fi>> wrote:
There actually two things that make a logger IGC approved
1. The anti-tampering methods which both signs the code against
changes in the file (easy) and against opening the device
(electronic seal). Quite many of loggers have integral antenna to
make your approach a bit difficult.
2. The approved loggers have also internal pressure metering to
have reliable altitude reference (flight levels are based on
normal pressure). It also makes faking the gps signal more
difficult as gps height should follow the altitude trace.
I believe that tampering with results is quite difficult in
practice during the competition because you can't know much
earlier where one should fly and at what time. Normally we are so
many that being missed and still "as-of-been-there" is quite
difficult an equation. At least here (and in most comps I know)
the IGC files are made available and some peer-control would
quite surely - at least in long run - show this forgery off. Also
the time restraints give quite a little time for tampering.
hannu (I have been scoring maybe 50-60 comps since '91)
On 29.3.2011 8:10, Luke O'Donnell wrote:
I was under the impression it was the same in Australia -
generally XCSoar/SeeYou etc traces are accepted in smaller
reigonal comp's, but not at the national level. If i recall
correctly, the Australian National's rules (Jan 2011) were that
you could submit a non-IGC approved trace only once during the
competition - intended to be a failsafe in the event of a logger
failure.
I havn't found much solid documentation on the web RE the
anti-tamper requirements for IGC-approved loggers, are these
really all that tamper-proof? I imagine that anyone who was
really dedicated to cheating could probably plug a device into
the external GPS antenna connector of an approved logger and
spoof the gps signals. This would remove the need for such a
cheater to actually tamper with the .igc file, which would
presumably be detectable with reference to some sort of hashing
algorithm.
Luke
On 29 March 2011 14:50, Max Kellermann <m...@duempel.org
<mailto:m...@duempel.org>> wrote:
On 2011/03/29 06:30, Hannu Niemi <hnpi...@phnet.fi
<mailto:hnpi...@phnet.fi>> wrote:
> Only thing you are missing without declaration is the
"accelerated
> rate of fixes" near turnpoint (though I am not sure if
GPS-NAV even
> supports this). In Volkslogger et al the logger logs fixes
every
> second below 0.5 km before the turning point cylinder
XCSoar does that.
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