Cdes I understand the anger and the frustration but I don't think this debate is taking us any where, especially when we start to use wrong names like stupid and so on. I think the reality here is that all of us we are suppose to honor our responsibilities and ensure that we use the correct channels to deal with issues and according to me both parties are at fault in this situation and what is needed is to go back to the drawing board and start to correct what ever it is wrong. We are all Comrades and we should treat each other as such and not as enemies. But government generally should try to change the way they are regarding and treating public servants as in most cases it's not good and it does not reflect the commitment and the energy that we used as workers to ensure that we are in power again. Public servants when they deal with employment benefit issues they are ignored or mistreated and that is not the correct way to deal with issues and at the end of the day we are expected to deliver quality services whilst our daily frustrations are not addressed. This is our government and they should not act like capitalists but must listen to us in order for us to listen to our leaders.
Dumisani Tuis- Court Manager Department of Justice & Constitutional Development- Victoria West Office Tel: 053-6210007 Fax: 0865070204 Cell: 0736430439 "The possibility that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just"- Abraham Lincoln ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sipho shandu Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: YCLSA condemns the dismissal of soldiers by the Minister of Defence and Military veterans Cadres, It has been more than a hundred days and everything has been going smooth until today when a lunatic of a minister decided to do away with a portion of our soldiers. What kind of a behavior is the minister trying project to other civil servants? Is she trying to scare them into not voicing their grievances? I did say before that the minister has made a huge error on the decision that she took in regards to our national protectors. Has this lumpen of a minister been to the DRC to see our soldiers who are keeping an eye in that war stricken country? Has this minister been to war? What was she thinking, firing our soldiers? did she think that we would just keep quite and turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to her decision? These are our fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers and of course our neighbours in the community. We will not sit and respect the foolish ministers fake decision. I once heard one of our leaders saying that we should not philosophise problem but rather we should tackle them on the table in order to deal with them vehemently cadres. I believe that our stupid minister has been dozing off during meetings and rallies where we as the ANC have read out our Tactics and Strategies adopted at Polokwane to the people of South Africa. This woman is not fit to lead as a minister. Our president must however cut his trip short and come back to address this matter by firing this lumpen as she has shown that her intentions are not for the betterment of our people. this, she has shown by not being able to deliberate and negotiate with our soldiers on the table. Even before they went on strike, she did not want to hear anything from them or their unions. South africa being a democratic society and also having a very unique and unbiased constitution in the world allows us to protest by negotiations via the table whenever we feel that we are not recieving what is due to us. The soldiers exercised their democratic rights by demonstrating their feelings towards the dept of Defence. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tshidiso <[email protected]> wrote: what is a "provisional dismisal"? Somebody help me ----- Original Message ----- From: sabelo gina <mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:00 PM Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: YCLSA condemns the dismissal of soldiers by the Minister of Defence and Military veterans Comrade Nndwamato, I have never thought one day I will read in the pages of this debating forum an opinion of a comrade who argue that HIV positive comrades must be discriminated against because the judge that made the ruling was reactionary, maybe we must debate what is being reactionary according to your definition. I would like to use the example of Sizwe Motaung, the best full back that South Africa ever had in the National Team. It is alleged that he died from AIDS. Could it be possible that in 1996 when the National Team won the Cup with his superb contribution, he was already HIV positive if indeed he died from AIDS? Now, as a person who works for a respected research institution, can you convince me how does an HIV positive fail to perfom like any other person? The call by the YCL is correct. You do not correct a wrong by doing another wrong, an amicably solution must be found on the matter. I think the commander in chief must intervene in this matter. Comradely, Cedric Gina. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Nndwamato Mutshidza <[email protected]> wrote: Cdes, While some of us sympathise with those provisionally dismissed, we need to get it clear that Dr. Lindiwe cannot just act out of anger to fulfil her task. You see cds, this tendency of YCL just from nowhere send condemnation without an analysis of the situation is problematic. For starters those soldiers who behaved like hooligans does not deserved to be called real workers as they seems not progressive and does not know what is right and wrong. If you are not granted permission to march the law should take its own cause period and they were aware of these quensequneces. SA has laws and as such people particularly those assigned responsibility to ensure that there law and order should be the first to guide this process. It cannot be right for us to make noise on lawlessness. Now on the issue at hand, cdes it does not matter who put who in power, the Minister has a duty to ensure that things are done in order. You cdes seems to have memory lapse, in that you think that it has been long she has been in the help of the mess created by Terror when he was in charge. The root cause, which the Zuma Administration has prioritised are issues of taking care of our combatant, issue of recruitment and building loyalty to serve this country. All these principles are not displayed by these soldier you so dearly want us to defend. The issue of support for those that requires training and those that are HIV are issue of Social responsibility of the State to provide for. The issue of just hiring people who amongst other is fitness cannot be overlooked no matter which reactionary judge ruled. Just like in Mining Industry, if you blood pressure cannot allow you to go deep down we are not obliged to hire you and thats what we called progressive discrimination for someone else sake. The same applies to soldiers who are HIV/AIDS infected, they know and studies have shown that you cannot be at your peak in a war zone as SA is doing currently in Central Africa. Hence we should have a debate as to this issue of opening the gate for everyone is in the interest of whose family. I am rasing this view to show that it is not easy to implement but you have to carefully plan the implementation of the court order looking at your own capacity. Assume we rush the implementation and in a scale of 1:10 you find that 5 are dying on this dieses as the stats shows, who take responsibility? The State through Tax payers and you want us not to have a say on this matter, maybe someone should educate me here. Lets give the new Minister chance to look at the implications and then report to this members. I am not qualified to talk to Salaries as I do not know how much they earn and what grade are they supposed to be and I would like to advice other to do the same and leave the rest to the due process to resolve the impasse. I remain Cde Tom >>> sipho shandu <[email protected]> 2009/09/01 12:10 PM >>> Greetings Cadres, I am of the opinion that our president made an error when choosing a minister of defence as she cannot discuss issues. The soldiers are the most underpaid civil servants in the country and yet they have chosen to guard and put their lives at risk. I believe that the ministers' decision to dismiss them was not well thought and was very much selfish. The minister tends to forget as to who put her and her bosses in government. She tends to forget her constituencies. I feel that the minister should reconsider her decision as she was still feeling a little bit sleepy at the time it was decided. We surely do not want war. This decision also shows the manner that government treats us as citizens and civil servants. I strongly condemn the minister because she does not understand the background of these soldiers. How does it now help that she has dismissed them? Who is going to feed their families? Is this part of the NDR? All cadres out there, let us rally behind our soldiers to get their jobs back and after that to get a salary review. All ministers tend to forget that we as the people elected them into those cushy positions and we could easily cut them down to size. If they want war, then war it that they shall get and that is not a threat! AMANDLA MASOSHA OMZANSI!! AMANDLA!!! On 9/1/09, Gugu Ndima <[email protected]> wrote: > > *YCLSA condemns the dismissal of soldiers by the Minister of Defence and > Military veterans* > > *01 September 2009* > > The Young communist league of South Africa (UFasimba) would like to condemn > the Minister for dismissing soldiers that were involved in the strike > action. We believe that this does not help the matter but exacerbates it > further. The YCLSA strongly opposes the violent nature of the action by the > soldiers who are members of the South African National Defence Union. > > The YCLSA believes that there is no form of grievance that justifies > violence and threat to national security. However, dismissing soldiers who > are bread winners and heads of family households implies that the Minister > is using dismissal as a political tool to avoid dealing with the gist of the > matter. > > We call on the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans not to solve the > problem by avoiding it, but by urgently giving the soldiers a hearing. We > believe that the concerns of the soldiers, especially related to wages and > transformation of the military, are genuine and should be addressed. > > Labour practises should be applied to any worker irrespective of their > occupation. We condemn any attempt to try and bar soldiers from being > members of trade unions, and do not agree with the sentiments made by the > MKVA. We therefore call upon the Minister to meet with representatives of > both unions and come to an amicable solution to the matter at hand. > > *Issued by the YCLSA Head office* > > *Contact* > > *Gugu Ndima (076 783 1516) * > > *National spokesperson* > > > -- > Gugu Ndima > +27 76 783 1516 > > > > -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support. 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