JMJM,

Since you mentioned my name I'd like to reply...

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well V,
> 
> Then perhaps, we need to start from the ground floor.  The Chinese 
> teaches that Chan is everything and all inclusive.  Everything both 
> visible and invisible are manifested by a singular, harmonious, 
> intelligent force. ( I am not sure zen agrees with this.  Bill's 
zen 
> seems wanting to have its own identity)

I wouldn't put it this way, but Buddha Nature (Just THIS!) is 
everything and all-inclusive, so it goes without saying that includes 
all things visable and invisable (invisable not implying spritual).

I agree with the 'singular', but not the 'harmonious' (if there is 
only one thing, what could it be in harmony with?) or 'intelligent' 
(no intelligence as in having a purpose, especially rationality)and 
not 'force' (as in engergy).
 
> That said, then all manifestations, both visible and invisible, are 
> categorized, analyzed, experimented in order for our brain to 
understand 
> Nature, or One, or God, so that anyone can live a healthier, 
happier and 
> harmonious life.

I don't disagree that this is what your rational mind does, that it 
creates a self and no-self, then all the rest of duality such as 
different categories of things, and analysis as to how these created 
categories relate to each other, and then 'understands' these things 
from a rational perspective; but all of this is MAYA.  THIS IS WHAT 
MAYA IS!  What do you think is meant by maya?

So the statement above and all the following statements are very, 
very interesting, but all maya - and not relevant, and the knowledge 
of, belief in or praticing these are certainly not prerequisites to 
enlightenment.

...Bill!

Thus, there is I-Ching, Wu-Xing, Herbal medicine, 
> acupuncture, Ying-Yang, feng-shui etc. etc for centuries. 
> 
> In our school, these "knowledge" or "human studies" belongs to the 
> "Three Realms - Desire, Form, Formless."  A dedicated Chan 
practitioner 
> can surpass the Three Reams - equates to blockage/karma to our 
Body, 
> Mind and Spirit.  We called it Three Karma Purification - a 
Buddhist term.
> 
> Therefore our school do not discuss these "knowledge", because they 
are 
> forms created by our mind.  It could be effective within the Three 
> Realms,  but may mess up the Realms beyond.
> 
> On the other hand, in all the "knowledge", there is a common 
> denominator, balance or harmony.  Everything about Chinese 
medicine, 
> acunpuncture, fengshui, is based on this philosophy, after all, all 
are 
> stemmed from one common  root,  mother nature, or God.
> 
> Similarly in Chan, we teach that life is a constant flow of 
> manifestations powered by an universal life force.  When we take a 
> picture trying to study it, it is no longer relevant.  Too many of 
us 
> even use it to judge everything else.  Worse, if we hang on to that 
> picture thought it was real, or we lost our focus and thus missed 
the 
> next big fish or bumped into a rock.  Sync to it is the only way.
> 
> Universal life force contains the power to manifest as well as the 
> wisdom it carries.  To get to the wisdom, like a radio signal, 
we've got 
> to have some power to sync to it.
>  
> JM



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