JMJM, QUIT LURING ME OUT OF LURKING! It's hard enough without such challenging posts as yours.
My comments/respones are embedded in your post below: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - è¦ºå¦ç²¾æ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, Having Trouble Lurking Bill, > Yes! I plead guilty to the charge! > I love strong statement... I always enjoyed your posting. > What other type of posting about zen could you expect? A wishy-washy posting? Haven't you heard the zen saying: When sitting, sit. When walking, walk. Above all, don't wobble! > I don't "know" whether karma has a position in zen or not. I don't > "know" where it belongs. Do you? :-) > Just THIS! > I also don't "know" what zen is. You have stated many times about > "true zen" as "True zen". Is there one? Or is zen just one, the ONE, > which includes everything - form, formless, all right and wrong......? > I'm not sure I ever used the term 'true zen', but in one of my weaker moments I may have. If I did use that term, and what I do continue to assert is, that zen is not dependent on or a sub-set of Buddhism or any other religion or belief systems. I personally THEORIZE (not assert) that zen may the the BASIS for Buddhism and most other religions, but zen is larger than all these - a superset if you want to call it that. > That said however, I do like your statement that when there is no you, > nothing sticks. Spiritually I agree. However, Edgar may argue in the > physical world, if I am hit by a car, it was not me? > Edgar does argue that, and very well. If YOU are hit by a car, or YOU are hungry, or YOU get annoyed at someone's posting - where is that YOU that experiences all this? Show me! > Is there cause and effect in zen? small cap zen? I love your > categorization and care in "your" dictionary. > Edgar and I have already contributed too much to global warming with all the bit flipping we've done to contruct a plethera of posts addressing this subject. My position is zen (lower case 'z') is not concerned with karma or its de-spiritalized foundation, cause-and- effect. They're both moot vis-a-vis zen. Just more maya to clear out of the way, more bullship to wade through. In Zen Buddhism (upper case 'Z'), karma has a very important role, or so I assume. > Happy Thanks Giving, > JM > Happy Now, ...Bill! > > Bill Smart wrote: > > > > I'm having trouble lurking... > > > > Karma does not have a position in zen. > > > > Karma is a belief in a lot of religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism and > > even Christianity - 'as you sow, so shall you reap', 'if you're 'bad' > > you'll go to hell but if you're 'good' you'll go to heaven', etc... > > > > Maintain a clear mind and karma is not relevant. How can YOU generate, > > accumulate and/or be affected by KARMA if there is no YOU? > > > > If however a clear mind is not maintained and there is a big fat YOU > > waddling around out there like a big wad of spiritual Velcro, then who > > knows what could stick to it? Maybe even karma! > > > > Clear Mind. Just THIS! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/