Sorry, Bill.  It is so tempting with your response.  Just one more 
comment....

If there is no YOU, who is feeling the challenge...  :-)

Bill Smart wrote:
>
> JMJM, QUIT LURING ME OUT OF LURKING! It's hard enough without such
> challenging posts as yours.
>
> My comments/respones are embedded in your post below:
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Having Trouble Lurking Bill,
> >
> Yes! I plead guilty to the charge!
>
> > I love strong statement... I always enjoyed your posting.
> >
> What other type of posting about zen could you expect? A wishy-washy
> posting? Haven't you heard the zen saying: When sitting, sit.
> When walking, walk. Above all, don't wobble!
>
> > I don't "know" whether karma has a position in zen or not. I don't
> > "know" where it belongs. Do you? :-)
> >
> Just THIS!
>
> > I also don't "know" what zen is. You have stated many times about
> > "true zen" as "True zen". Is there one? Or is zen just one, the
> ONE,
> > which includes everything - form, formless, all right and
> wrong......?
> >
> I'm not sure I ever used the term 'true zen', but in one of my weaker
> moments I may have. If I did use that term, and what I do continue
> to assert is, that zen is not dependent on or a sub-set of Buddhism
> or any other religion or belief systems. I personally THEORIZE (not
> assert) that zen may the the BASIS for Buddhism and most other
> religions, but zen is larger than all these - a superset if you want
> to call it that.
>
> > That said however, I do like your statement that when there is no
> you,
> > nothing sticks. Spiritually I agree. However, Edgar may argue in
> the
> > physical world, if I am hit by a car, it was not me?
> >
> Edgar does argue that, and very well.
>
> If YOU are hit by a car, or YOU are hungry, or YOU get
> annoyed at someone's posting - where is that YOU that experiences all
> this? Show me!
>
> > Is there cause and effect in zen? small cap zen? I love your
> > categorization and care in "your" dictionary.
> >
> Edgar and I have already contributed too much to global warming with
> all the bit flipping we've done to contruct a plethera of posts
> addressing this subject. My position is zen (lower case 'z') is not
> concerned with karma or its de-spiritalized foundation, cause-and-
> effect. They're both moot vis-a-vis zen. Just more maya to clear
> out of the way, more bullship to wade through.
>
> In Zen Buddhism (upper case 'Z'), karma has a very important role, or
> so I assume.
>
> > Happy Thanks Giving,
> > JM
> >
> Happy Now,
> ...Bill!
>
> >
> > Bill Smart wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm having trouble lurking...
> > >
> > > Karma does not have a position in zen.
> > >
> > > Karma is a belief in a lot of religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism
> and
> > > even Christianity - 'as you sow, so shall you reap', 'if
> you're 'bad'
> > > you'll go to hell but if you're 'good' you'll go to heaven',
> etc...
> > >
> > > Maintain a clear mind and karma is not relevant. How can YOU
> generate,
> > > accumulate and/or be affected by KARMA if there is no YOU?
> > >
> > > If however a clear mind is not maintained and there is a big fat
> YOU
> > > waddling around out there like a big wad of spiritual Velcro,
> then who
> > > knows what could stick to it? Maybe even karma!
> > >
> > > Clear Mind. Just THIS!
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  

------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to