Bill and Anthony,
You guys' confusion stems from your lack of understanding that Mu =
Buddha nature. Joju was simply invoking Buddha nature in response to
the question of whether a dog has it.
Edgar
On Dec 21, 2008, at 5:19 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Anthony,
In answering that student's question in the koan your 'no' is
absolutely just as good as my 'whatever'.
I'm not an Asian language expert (although I do speak Thai), but
Zhaozhou must have actually said 'wu' since he was Chinese. Joju is
ZhaoZhou's name rendered in Japanese, and he is reported to have
said 'mu' since this was a retelling of the encounter in Japanese.
Thai's use 'mai' which means 'negative'. It can mean no, it can
mean not, it can mean 'nothing'.
The whole koan stems from the 'fact' that Siddhartha Buddha is
reported to have said 'all sentient being have Buddha Nature'.
JoJu's student then asked Joju: 'Does a dog have a Buddha Nature?'
To which JoJu reportedly replied his now famous 'mu'. Now that
could have meant 'no', and since the student already knew Buddha
said ALL SENTIENT beings have Buddha Nature, it set up a conundrum
for him, an un-solvable puzzle - a koan. Why does Buddha say one
thing and Joju say something different? BUT, in the absolutely
sublime response Joju could have also meant 'who cares?', or
'moot', or 'go fish', or maybe today even 'fuck off'. He could have
meant anything to get the student to concentrate so hard on solving
the unsolvable that his mind finally gives up and STOPS - No Mind -
and that is KENSHO - an initial breakthrough. That No Mind is
meeting Joju and all the other Buddhas and teachers face-to-face.
That No Mind is Buddha Nature.
...Bill!
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Zen] Nature?
Bill,
I don't see a difference between my 'no' and your 'whatever'. Both
mean 'stop bullshiting about Buddha nature'. Next time you meet
Zhaozhou zen master, give him a better carrot.
Anthony
--- On Sun, 21/12/08, [email protected] <[email protected]>
wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Nature?
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, 21 December, 2008, 11:32 AM
I have met Zhaozhou face-to-face. His response 'mu' to his
student's question on whether a dog (or duck or maggot) did not
mean 'no'. In our vernacular it could be translated as 'whatever',
or 'moot'. If you're spending all your time or posts speculating
about Buddha Nature you're barking up the wrong tree, or swimming
in the wrong pond, or gnawing on the wrong carrion.
Back in Thailand and lurking no more...Bill!
From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogrou
ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:42 PM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: [Zen] Nature?
Edgar,
Your missed the point. On the one hand, everything has Buddha
nature (your word 'innate' is correct). On the other, you should
not attach to that idea. That is why Bill Smart's great grand
father Zhaozhou zen master says, 'no', when asked 'does a dog have
Buddha nature?'.
Anthony
--- On Fri, 19/12/08, Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att. net> wrote:
From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att. net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Ducks Have Buddha Nature?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Friday, 19 December, 2008, 11:56 PM
Anthony,
It is nonsense to think that humans could convey Buddha nature on
to anything at all by thinking about them. Buddha nature is innate
in all things.
Your ignorant Zhaozhou master needs a duck to teach him about
Buddha nature!
Edgar
On Dec 19, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
Karin,
Ducks have Buddha nature when we have sympathy with them. When you
think about them in general terms, they should have no Buddha
nature. Otherwise, you would attach to them. That is a teaching
from Zhaozhou zen master.
Anthony
--- On Tue, 16/12/08, Karin <tortillera77@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Karin <tortillera77@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [Zen] Ducks Have Buddha Nature?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 4:55 PM
I work at a shopping mall and there is a canal nearby and there are
lots of ducks in the area.. I feed them out of the back of the store
sometimes, and they run towards me and I talk to them. That is fun.
However, many people dislike the ducks because they poop a lot, and I
have seen some people run them over with their cars when they are
driving through the shopping center. They have contempt for the ducks
and think that if the ducks are in the way of the car, it is OK to run
over them. This is very sad to me.
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