He will be the first to tell you that he does not need or want your sympathy.  
I use him as an example because you have read his posts and understand his view 
of buddha nature.  But you agree with my view that he is always talking about 
ultimate nature, but never about the conventional objects that appear.  To him 
the ultimate negates the conventional necessity to act.  He projects ultimate 
reality onto conventional reality which is a functional thing that functions 
differently then the ultimate.  

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Joe,
>  
> You keep pointing your finger at bill, which leads me to sympathize with 
> 'Bill'. He is always talking about the ultmate truth, forgetting the 
> conventional.
>  
> Anthony
> 
> --- On Mon, 26/7/10, maitreya003 <joult...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: maitreya003 <joult...@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 3:49 AM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Anthony,
> 
> Ultimate truth is the way things really are, which is emptiness and more 
> specifically bliss and emptiness. False truths are those that do not lead to 
> ultimate truth but lead to perpetuated suffering. This is false truth in 
> regards to the ultimate. false truths in regards to the illusion that appears 
> are ones that lead to and perpetuate illusory suffering. This is why 
> compassion which has the power to relieve suffering and prevent future 
> suffering and negative rebirths for others is a truth. A false truth is that 
> compassion is an unnecessary illusion. Individual minds have the freedom to 
> abide in solitary peace, but to say that nothing more can be brought to the 
> world through that freedom or that nothing else needs to be done in the form 
> of compassion is a false truth which leads to other solitary attainers. 
> Solitary minds are great for the minds gone to solitary peace, but for those 
> who still suffer in and as the illusion, they are not much help. Not
>  much help does not mean they do not help others, but that the help is 
> limited compasred to that of a being of compassion. For compassion the end is 
> just the beginning as self dissappears the compassion grows in power. This 
> power is the effective force in relieving the suffering of others while 
> bringing them to inner peace. For a solitary mind gone to peace, they have a 
> cup of tea, not realizing that if they were truly no-self, compassion would 
> arise through them the subtle stains of the self remain. 
> 
> There are two truths, ultimate and conventional. The conventional truths may 
> be illusion, but they are one with the ultimate, so buddha called them 
> truths. Truth to the minds that are enhabiting the worlds that appear. From 
> conventional truth comes functioning things. Compassion is a functioning 
> thing, just as a solitary liberated mind is a functioning thing. It does not 
> matter in the conventional world who has found the ultimate, because the 
> world cant see their mind, but when the ultimate is brought to the world 
> through active compassion, it is seen. Compassion is how personal freedom 
> should be expressed. It is not a delusion but the active source of freedom in 
> the illusory functioning world of form. The middle way does not negate the 
> world of form while maintaining inner peace, but it functions within it never 
> forgetting its ultimate nature. A cup is conventionally a cup though it does 
> not really exist as its ultimate nature is emptiness, but without
>  the cup, the form, there would be no basis for its emptiness. Emptiness is 
> not some separate thing then the cup, but the ultimate nature of the cup. 
> There is not cup there is no emptiness of the cup. THere is no self there are 
> no others, everythings an illusion this is an ultimate view. There is a self 
> that appears, there are others that appear, everything appearing is an 
> illusion, this is a conventional truth view. The world of form, conventional 
> form, is a valid truth with no mistake of self or others. Now a conventional 
> self that believes in existant self and others is not. If your mind is mixed 
> with emptiness then conventional form should not contradict but validate that 
> view. The being that arises from the union of conventional and ultimate 
> truths is compassion. Views negate the world of inifinite conventional things 
> because they are illusory, yet the fact that they appear at all make them 
> objects that may not exist but appear. Buddha called them
>  objects of knowledge. Buddha's ominscient mind knows all objects of 
> knowledge, and still never leaves the ultimate. This is the difference 
> between buddha nature appearing as bill, whos mind is human bill gone to 
> peace and buddha. From omniscience comes power to heal the world and this can 
> come from no human gone to peace, but one gone to peace and grown to perfect 
> appearance through transformation. 
> 
> I didnt mean to get long winded sorry about that.
> 
> Joe
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> >  
> > What are the criteria for ultimate truths and false truths?
> >  
> > Anthony
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 23/7/10, maitreya003 <joultimo@> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: maitreya003 <joultimo@>
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 11:28 AM
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Buddha claimed ultimate truth and warned of hells and taught a true path to 
> > which conflicted other paths. There are ultimate truths and there are false 
> > truths. Those who hold false truths declair ignorance as truth.
> > joe
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ED,
> > >  
> > > If you claim yours is the ultimate truth, you qualify for a Taliban.
> > >  
> > > Anthony
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 21/7/10, ED <seacrofter001@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: ED <seacrofter001@>
> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, 21 July, 2010, 10:06 PM
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Why "don't claim", if that's the way one sees it?
> > > 
> > > --ED
> > > 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Artie,
> > > >
> > > > It is OK to have different beliefs, as long as you don't claim yours
> > > is the final truth.
> > > >
> > > > Anthony
> > >
> >
>




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