Joe,
 
You keep pointing your finger at bill, which leads me to sympathize with 
'Bill'. He is always talking about the ultmate truth, forgetting the 
conventional.
 
Anthony

--- On Mon, 26/7/10, maitreya003 <joult...@gmail.com> wrote:


From: maitreya003 <joult...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 3:49 AM


  



Anthony,

Ultimate truth is the way things really are, which is emptiness and more 
specifically bliss and emptiness. False truths are those that do not lead to 
ultimate truth but lead to perpetuated suffering. This is false truth in 
regards to the ultimate. false truths in regards to the illusion that appears 
are ones that lead to and perpetuate illusory suffering. This is why compassion 
which has the power to relieve suffering and prevent future suffering and 
negative rebirths for others is a truth. A false truth is that compassion is an 
unnecessary illusion. Individual minds have the freedom to abide in solitary 
peace, but to say that nothing more can be brought to the world through that 
freedom or that nothing else needs to be done in the form of compassion is a 
false truth which leads to other solitary attainers. Solitary minds are great 
for the minds gone to solitary peace, but for those who still suffer in and as 
the illusion, they are not much help. Not
 much help does not mean they do not help others, but that the help is limited 
compasred to that of a being of compassion. For compassion the end is just the 
beginning as self dissappears the compassion grows in power. This power is the 
effective force in relieving the suffering of others while bringing them to 
inner peace. For a solitary mind gone to peace, they have a cup of tea, not 
realizing that if they were truly no-self, compassion would arise through them 
the subtle stains of the self remain. 

There are two truths, ultimate and conventional. The conventional truths may be 
illusion, but they are one with the ultimate, so buddha called them truths. 
Truth to the minds that are enhabiting the worlds that appear. From 
conventional truth comes functioning things. Compassion is a functioning thing, 
just as a solitary liberated mind is a functioning thing. It does not matter in 
the conventional world who has found the ultimate, because the world cant see 
their mind, but when the ultimate is brought to the world through active 
compassion, it is seen. Compassion is how personal freedom should be expressed. 
It is not a delusion but the active source of freedom in the illusory 
functioning world of form. The middle way does not negate the world of form 
while maintaining inner peace, but it functions within it never forgetting its 
ultimate nature. A cup is conventionally a cup though it does not really exist 
as its ultimate nature is emptiness, but without
 the cup, the form, there would be no basis for its emptiness. Emptiness is not 
some separate thing then the cup, but the ultimate nature of the cup. There is 
not cup there is no emptiness of the cup. THere is no self there are no others, 
everythings an illusion this is an ultimate view. There is a self that appears, 
there are others that appear, everything appearing is an illusion, this is a 
conventional truth view. The world of form, conventional form, is a valid truth 
with no mistake of self or others. Now a conventional self that believes in 
existant self and others is not. If your mind is mixed with emptiness then 
conventional form should not contradict but validate that view. The being that 
arises from the union of conventional and ultimate truths is compassion. Views 
negate the world of inifinite conventional things because they are illusory, 
yet the fact that they appear at all make them objects that may not exist but 
appear. Buddha called them
 objects of knowledge. Buddha's ominscient mind knows all objects of knowledge, 
and still never leaves the ultimate. This is the difference between buddha 
nature appearing as bill, whos mind is human bill gone to peace and buddha. 
From omniscience comes power to heal the world and this can come from no human 
gone to peace, but one gone to peace and grown to perfect appearance through 
transformation. 

I didnt mean to get long winded sorry about that.

Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Joe,
>  
> What are the criteria for ultimate truths and false truths?
>  
> Anthony
> 
> --- On Fri, 23/7/10, maitreya003 <joult...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: maitreya003 <joult...@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 11:28 AM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Buddha claimed ultimate truth and warned of hells and taught a true path to 
> which conflicted other paths. There are ultimate truths and there are false 
> truths. Those who hold false truths declair ignorance as truth.
> joe
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> >
> > ED,
> >  
> > If you claim yours is the ultimate truth, you qualify for a Taliban.
> >  
> > Anthony
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 21/7/10, ED <seacrofter001@> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: ED <seacrofter001@>
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Compassion
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, 21 July, 2010, 10:06 PM
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why "don't claim", if that's the way one sees it?
> > 
> > --ED
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Artie,
> > >
> > > It is OK to have different beliefs, as long as you don't claim yours
> > is the final truth.
> > >
> > > Anthony
> >
>








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